Yesterday I received an email from a reader who had hired a copywriter based on my recommendation in late 2009.
Unfortunately, he was not happy with the sales letter he received from the copywriter, and the copywriter allegedly did not complete the work he had been paid to do.
About seven weeks ago, the reader wrote to me about his negative experience with this copywriter. It was the second complaint I had received from readers regarding this copywriter, and I had also received an additional warning from a fellow marketer.
At that point, I pulled my endorsement of the copywriter, and made it clear on my website that I am no longer recommending him.
Now yesterday I received another email from the reader…
Hi Eric,
I hope you are well.
Just to let you know I contacted BBB.org, PayPal and my credit card company.
The business of [redacted] is not registered with BBB.org.
The complaint with PayPal can only be filed within 45 days from the date of payment and that period is exceeded due to [redacted] procrastination and the story telling.
My credit card company is not able to provide the refund of $1344 I paid to [redacted] for the letters he never wrote as there is an involvement from PayPal between them and the vendor.
I acted on your recommendation to choose services of [redacted] as you described him trustworthy and reliable.
From all people and businesses who gave testimonials on his web site only one responded on my enquiry.
The others simply ignored my enquiry and some of the have URL error.
I do not want to lose $1344 USD for nothing as I acted in full honesty and transparency and am asking you to provide me with the full refund.
Hope to hear from you soon.
Kind regards
Dragutin
As you’ve seen, the reader is asking me to compensate him for the payment he made to the copywriter.
I should mention that I do appreciate his polite tone. If he had sent a “flame” I wouldn’t be featuring it here.
I asked him for some additional information, and here is a copy of his communications with the copywriter:
PDF of email correspondence [redacted]
So there are really two questions at stake here…
1) Am I legally liable for the products I endorse or promote as an affiliate?
2) What is the right and ethical thing to do?
The ramifications are very significant, because the answers to these questions affect not only this situation but also…
– Everything I endorse/promote.
– Everyone who endorses anything or promotes something as an affiliate.
This is why the Internet marketing world was in a tizzy last December when the FTC rolled out their new guidelines for endorsements and testimonials.
So let’s answer the first question, as it applies to this situation:
Am I legally liable?
According to the FTC, endorsers may be liable for false or unsubstantiated claims made in an endorsement, or for failure to disclose material connections between the advertiser and endorsers.
Let’s talk about false or unsubstantiated claims.
If I had blindly promoted the product/service without checking it out first (as many affiliates do in this industry, and as I have done in the past on occasion), then I believe I might bear liability if my claims did not match up to the product. Let that be a word of warning to all affiliate marketers: You ARE responsible for what you say/write.
However, in this case I was speaking from first-hand experience. I had actually paid this copywriter $197 to write a sales letter for me, and I felt that the product I received was a good value for the amount that I had paid.
Therefore, my claim was substantiated, and I made the recommendation in good faith that the copywriter would provide similar value for other customers.
Now let’s talk about disclosing material connections.
I initially wrote my recommendation in October of 2009, which was prior to the new FTC guidelines going into effect.
When the new guidelines went into effect on December 1st, I added an “Affiliate & Material Connection Statement” to my website, which I believe satisfies this requirement. If I am shown otherwise, then I might need to get more aggressive about disclosing material/affiliate relationships.
In this particular case, I never did get paid an affiliate commission for the sale in question. So I’m not sure how that affects the material connection from a legal standpoint. Am I still an affiliate if I’m getting scammed too?
OK, so in my opinion I am NOT legally liable for the copywriter’s failure in this situation.
But that brings us to the next question…
What is the right and ethical thing to do?
Although I am someone who believes in absolute truth, and a clear distinction between right and wrong… the realm of ethics can still be grey at times.
I’ve tried to put myself in the customer’s shoes.
If I were him, I probably would have written the same email to me.
I’ve been a victim of scams in the past, so I’m familiar with what he is feeling. It’s one of the worst feelings that the pallet of human emotions can paint. Anger, frustration, regret, self-loathing… all rolled into one. The only way out of it is to go through the grief cycle, and reach a point of acceptance.
From the look of my dear reader’s emails, he’s gone through the denial and anger stages, and has now come around to the bargaining stage. Like I said, I’d be bargaining too.
I see this from two perspectives… justice, and compassion.
From the justice standpoint, I believe it would not be right for me to give him the refund out of my own pocket. Would justice be served by this? No.
Now… IF I had been paid a commission, I do think partial justice could be served if I refunded that commission to the customer. But in this case, there is no commission to speak of.
From a compassion standpoint, I’d love to help out my reader.
If we were talking about a much smaller dollar amount, I probably would have just offered to pay for it (or more likely… I wouldn’t have gotten an email about it in the first place). But $1344 is a decent chunk of change.
We all know the golden rule: do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
If it were the other way around, would I want him to pay for my refund out of his pocket? Yes I would, at this moment in time. But after more time has passed, I would most likely come to the conclusion that justice would not be served by an otherwise innocent affiliate paying me out of his own pocket.
In other words, my sense of justice would eventually trump my desire for recompense. (The two are not mutually exclusive. The victim should be paid back in order for justice to be served, but taking the money from the wrong person is not the solution)
So I do not think it is my moral obligation to pay for the customer’s loss…
But I want to know what YOU think!
I told the customer I would post this on my blog, and take my reader’s opinions into consideration.
I want to know:
What would you do in my situation, and why?
I am absolutely willing to pay a full refund to the customer if the arguments in his favor outweigh the arguments against.
I wish I could just err on the side of compassion, but obviously such a precedent could open me up to a lot of headaches and abuse due to other customers taking advantage of my leniency. If that is the outcome, then I will probably change some things about how I run my business.
Post your comments below. Please do not “trash” me OR the customer or even the copywriter. That’s not the point of this. At the same time I am not necessarily looking for support. I want your honest opinion, even if you are not on my side.
Obviously this is not something that needed to be made public, but I am doing so because I think we can have a good constructive conversation. This is an important topic that affects all Internet marketers. So let us know what you think.
Thanks for your input!
UPDATE: I’ve now posted the conclusion to this saga here:
Dear Eric,
The matter is actually very simple. Although you have come across as an honest and decent individual which I sense is not an act (to your credit in this often amoral world of I.M.) you have made public a private business matter between yourself and one who came to you expecting you to treat them with respect and dignity and respond privately.
By exposing this for public review and opinion I’m afraid you have broken a trust barrier my friend.
This is not about small claims court, a rush of refunds or any reader/client repercussions. It really is a question of YOUR integrity.
I firmly believe you should never have made this private matter public. While I believe you are who you portray yourself to be I now have a question as to trust that I didn’t have up till now.
I apologize if this seems harsh. You really seem like a good guy Eric so I hope you don’t mind my straightforwardness.
Regards,
Greg
Was the $1344 for work the copywriter was to complete or for a product? If the former, then the complainer should have a contract and perhaps should learn the lesson of not paying 100% up front. If you were recommending [redacted]’s work based on what he did for you, then you are not liable for his scam.
We hired a contractor to remodel our house based largely on the recommendation of a friend. Said contractor did work for them on time and on budget. They skipped out halfway through after my husband paid them 100% after hearing a sob story about sick kids. Is our friend liable? While I wish we could collect from them, that’s just silly.
You have to ask yourself honestly if you tested whatever it was you were recommending.
A telling remark is that you were the only ‘recommender” to respond to the guy. So he’ giving it the old college try. Hope you are also learning the lesson.
Hi Eric
I felt that I had to respond on this!
I think it is time that we ALL take responsibility for OUR OWN actions…rather than try and blame someone else.
For example:_ If I use a restaurant recommended by a friend and get a bad meal do I get my money back from my friend??
Or I take my car to a garage highly recommended and they do not do a good job, do I take up this issue with the recommender??
NO NO NO, of couse you could say to the recommender “Hey that restaurant, garage, hairdressers, etc etc was bad” but the issue of complaint has to be taken up directly from the person and the company they dealt with.
We all want great service, products etc and try to research first so not to get caught or scammed but I say Eric, you should not refund on a recommendation, you I know from my trading experiences with you, would refund if you supplied the service and it was bad or I, the customer simply wanted a refund!!
Well thats my pennies worth and I am sure people may or may not disagree but having dealt with Eric he is more than fair and sometimes principle is the issue!
Have a great day all and I am sorry for the person who is out of pocket as we can ALL give stories about bad service etc!!
Mike Kirtley
Hi,
In my opinion you are not responsible. If you recommend someone who wants to sell something, say a car, and the seller does not live up to his duty’s i think you can’t be hold responsible for this, although people will also be angry at you. The seller should have the decency to deliver a good product.
Marja
I agree with Roar completely, and I am also a Christian.
Eric,
A simple No will do. I’ve read most of the replies pertaining to the legal aspect and the moral. Legally responsible, depends upon what legal counsel is reading it. I give 90% in favor of you not legally having to pay.
But that 10%, you know the ones, The same that can get robbers off for breaking into your home, ramsacking your personal belongings and because they say they broke in only to get out of the cold. Although, its 80 degrees mid May in Florida. In my early days we called lawyers ambulance chasers.
Him paying the copywriter up front, not being satisfied, going beyound the paypal period for redemption, lies totally on him. First thing he should have done was respond to paypal within the allocated time. Had he done just that, Mr. Copywriter may have had his paypal account frozen, being the amount was over $1000. Believe me Mr. Copywriter than would have responded. I did it to someone and whoopie do, Results.
Eric, you being the 3rd party, are under no obligation between him and the copywriter, in my opinion. I base this on an example. If you dont pay a credit card balance and the CC company turns it over to a 3rd party collection, In my opnion you dont have to pay. Why, because you do not have a written agreement with the 3rd party. You do have an agreement with CC company but they can not pass this to a 3rd party collection unless you accept. Unless in fine print its there. They are smarter now than many years ago. A lawyer is not a 3rd party they are the spoke person for the CC company. You got to listen to them.
Eric, moral belongs in business but so does Buyer Beware. I wouldn’t give consideration to the copywriter fees but whatever he paid for the program ( $197) I might consider. That was what you may have received or a portion of. Shall we talk Politically Correct, No not now. Beware of the 10%….
I doubt you are legally liable in any way. So the question is “what is the right thing to do”. I think it comes down to intent. If you intended to make a commission off recommending Mr. [redacted] (whether the sleezeball ever paid you or not) then I believe the right thing is to give your client the amount of commission you planned to earn on the transaction. The reason you recommended [redacted] was because of the commission you intended to earn. I realize you got screwed by not receiving your commission, but those are really two different events. In effect, Mr. [redacted] screwed both you and your client. Hopefully all this attention on Mr. [redacted] will slam his business for years to come.
Hi Eric,
I’ve only been on your mailing list a short time, so I’m not that familiar with you or how you operate. That said, I think you’ve already gone over the top by making this public. I doubt that there are many others that would have thrown this out to the list and agreed to abide by the consensus. I think one of the telling things is that the “victim” doesn’t have enough money to pay the copywriter which he disclosed after the work was done. One thing I’ve learned in years of business is Don’t Mess With People’s Money! If he couldn’t afford to pay for the sales letter he shouldn’t have hired the writer in the first place. How or why he thinks you’re responsible appears to be a desperate, last hope of finding someone who will refund the money. As far as ethics are concerned, I agree with the others that a recommendation is just that. I had a friend who is an auto mechanic, and the work he did on my cars was first rate. However, after recommending him to a couple close friends who were unhappy, I quit giving his name out. None of the people I dealt with felt that I should be the one to pay their bill!
I feel for him,but why should you give him the refund. RESEARCH,RESEARCH,RESEARCH is a good Motto.
Hi Eric,
Because you did not recieve the $1344 in a transaction between you and Dragutin AND you made the recommendation in good faith, I’d say you are should NOT refund.
Ultimately, the buyer of the service must check out the business themselves and make sure they are legit.
I have been bitten too by two companies that had no bad marks at the BBB.org , yet they completely failed to deliver on a website and
traffic product. There are many stories of these rip offs which tends to make people leary of doing business online. I am about to contact my Attorney General in Massachusetts about what happened to me. Now I’m afraid to hire out because I got burnt.
So these bad deals are happening out there. Would you like to refund me as well??? I lost about $5000!!! ….I chalk it up to being naive and thinking everyone has the same ethical standards that I try to have.
So what should we do as marketers? Make recommendations or not? I think recommendation really help people and I probably will make general recommendations. Giving a list of choices is better. That way it is plain that the buyer must decide who to choose. You can point people in the right direction without really saying one particular choice.
I’m sorry that you have to handle these issues, but I agree with most people here. You are not liable for anything.
Claudia
It seems to me that you would open yourself up to evetyone who doesn’t get their refund. If you refund money to this person, then you will have many people feeling you would do the same for them. I too have been scammed and was not able to get a refund. It is a costly lesson, but let the buyer beware. Good Luck! Karen
Eric,
He should ask his mother for refund, for raising him to be a wind-up, go around and do exactly what everyone else suggest to him idiot robot doll. There is an important lesson here that this guy needs to learn, and that is – before he decides to shell out his hard earned cash; he should do a little legwork and not depend so heavily on one person’s opinion. After reading the e-mail he sent; unlike you I do take offense to his politeness; it comes off as an impudent boldness. This guy don’t need a refund, he needs sympathy for being such a moron.
Dear Eric, Even though you are not legally liable to refund the customer based upon your recommendation. I would try to contact the copywriter and try to get him to settle with the customer. I would also give the customer something you can offer of value. Let the customer know what you have done and willing to do. I think knowing that you tried to do your best in helping me recover my loss would be satisfying to me.
Indeed this is a hard situation but I know you would go out of your way and that itself is some gratification to the situation. My opinion.
I have read the pdf of emails 3 times in chronological order. It seems as though a few emails are missing.
The sales letter was a real mish-mash, and not in the least suited for the vendor’s product.
He received it in plenty of time to demand a refund, and he would have gotten it.
Why did he continue with this copywriter?
Writing sales copy is a service, not an existing product. That is why payment for said is usually termed: Payment for Services Rendered (note that the word ‘rendered’ is in the past tense).
In terms of services, the pre-billing of the full cost of the service TO BE RENDERED is acceptable only with regards to some form of maintenance (yards, lawns, swimming pools, snow removal, etc.).
The copywriter is liable for the full refund but the problem is that Dragutin failed to demand the refund in good time.
This said, it is still possible, if he has been with his credit card company/bank for any period of time, that he could push harder to have them cancel the charge.
His explanation that the reason he did not cancel and demand a refund was due to the copywriter’s procrastination and story-telling does not hold water
Once again, my feeling is that, like the emails, there is a lack of transparency here.
In summation, Dragutin sees the responsibility for his problems as lying with the copywriter or with you…at no point does he appear to accept any responsibility for his decision.
It is clear that you empathize with his situation. This means that you care about him.
If you really do, I believe it is imperative that you refrain from covering any part of his loss. As well, I believe that doing any of the things suggested some of your readers.
You will not be helping him if you do, you will become an enabler, helping him stay in the role of victim.
His product seems to be in good part about the Law of Attraction, and the teachings of Bob Proctor. He also seems to indicate that he believes in the value of his product, therefore the teachings themselves.
From what I know of those teachings, a belief that you are a victim is detrimental to achieving any type of success.
You will help him more by not enabling him than in any other way.
With regard to recommendations of what you should do from this point forward, I would suggest an email showing people/products you no longer recommend, and the reasons for this.
As well, perhaps on your site you could announce that this is something you intend from this point forward to do.
The size of your list alone, and the knowledge that this is what you’ll be doing from now on, will send a clear message to people who sell products/services that clearly do not deliver.
In this way, you would do a far greater service straight across the internet and help many people, by making certain shady characters realize they stand to lose a great deal if they continue doing business in this manner.
Hi Eric,
Important considerations.
Legal issues are always best left to professionals, but the moral and ethical ones are really the crux here.
Sometimes it makes sense to imagine a comparable situation in another area.
For example, if you recommend a movie you honestly liked to a friend, who then sees it and hates it, should you pay them for their movie ticket? I believe most people would say no.
How about a restaurant? You had a perfectly good meal there, but what your friend ordered wasn’t satisfactory to them. Are you morally or ethically on the hook for the cost of their meal?
Of course these aren’t the same things as the copywriting situation, but they illustrate one part of the issue nontheless.
The other part of it has to do with the fact that you apparently weren’t compensated at all for the recommendation. You made the recommendation in good faith based on the information available to you. The fact that it didn’t pan out and that ultimately it cost your reader a chunk of money has everything to do with the copywriter’s ethics, morals and legal choices, and nothing to do with yours.
When you knew better, you changed your recommendation.
Some people say we should be our brother’s keeper, but I disagree. In this case it’s a hard lesson for the client, but one he obviously needed to learn.
We live in a world where caveat emptor is increasinly important. I bet the next time this reader secures copywriting services he will do a LOT more due diligence.
All the best.
Bruce
If you only look at the legal and ethical side of the story, no, you are not liable.
But looking at the greater picture it does not seem to be an option doing nothing about this situation. And I am not talking about paying his money back out of your pocket.
This guy is a customer of yours. He followed your advice. He does not seem to have much experience, otherwise he wouldn’t have payed upfront.
So how about you offering him some help in solving this situation? F.e. giving Dragutin some advice how to deal with this situation, making a call/send an e-mail on his behalf to the copywriter, or whatever is possible from your point of view.
This would give your customer the feeling that somebody really cares, that he is not left alone and that he came to the right person, you.
Beside it might also help solving this problem. With your experience and knowledge of the market it might make a difference for the copywriter if you get involved.
Even if Dragutin is complaining about loosing his money and I really feel for him, this problem is not only a monetary issue. It is also about empathy, him trusting you, him asking for any kind of help he can get in this situation.
And if you would be able to offer him some help, any help, it would change the whole picture. For him, for you and for all IMs.
You are still not liable but you would do something for him only a friend would do. You would show that you are much more than an affiliate who only wants your customers money. It would prove that you’re really there to help. No matter that he has done the mistakes with this deal himself.
And it would be a great example for everybody else. Beside the fact that you might feel much better yourself.
Eric,
You are not legally responsible, but morally yes…you are on the hook. You were being your brothers keeper when you made the recommendation of this guy.
You did the right thing by revoking the recommendation, though.
What is the right thing to do here?
I can’t answer that for you, but I will tell you what I would do.
If I had the skills, I would do his sales page for him personally.
What does this do for you? Sure, it takes some time out of your day to craft something up that will likely be far superior to this dead-beat letter.
And…
It let’s yet another person know that you stand by your readers and the recommendations you give.
It is akin to the 90 day money back guarantee thing, but this time it is your word as a man that is at stake, not some product…
Those are my thoughts anyway…mileage may vary with others.
Eric,
I’m not a lawyer. I’m a copywriter and have been for 20+ years. But I know the law — specifically, tort law — enough to comment, here. (But this is not legal advice, of course.)
Legally, you are not liable. Because your endorsement is based on personal experience. It is not an endorsement from someone else you posted or published, in order for you to help sell for you and get an affiliate commission if they chose to go with that copywriter.
Secondly, you do not have a legally binding agreement between this person and yourself. Therefore, it is up to the courts to determine liability. If this person is attempting to get a refund when you have no direct compensation, this is akin to, or may be construed as, extortion. If they tried to sue you, you could easily countersue for this reason.
Liability for endorsers is based on material connections — getting paid is only one of them. If the copywriter said, “I’ll do free work for you if you refer clients to me,” or “I’ll send clients your way if you send some to mine,” that’s a martial connection.
But liability to an affiliate in a material connection is still limited. It does not apply when the endorsement was done in provable good faith. The law is meant to protect consumers who buy from affiliates who willingly scam consumers or acted in bad faith in order to get commissions. Again, it refers to you using illegal/unethical tactics in order to get compensation (see point #1, above).
If you used fake endorsements in order to make a sale, or if you lied, or if you were negligent, then you are liable. But this is not the case, here because you appear to not have received any compensation or used false information to make “the sale.”
Bottom line, for this person to have any grounds to stand on, they must prove, in a court of law, that your actions were part of an intentional or negligent tortious conduct.
I would take people at there word that the person or company they support is a good and stable company. I do understand things that company does are not in your control. I think in this case I understand and I would not hold you libable in this case. Of course I did not see or read the work this person did. IN this case make it hard to decide. The work that was completed could be good for me, but your reader does not like it. everybody is different. I say not libable!
Eric,
I’m the proud leader of a company that was founded by my great grandfather in 1924.
Since then the world has changed alot. Wars, crises… My experience is this. Once in
a while “cases” like this show up. When they do, they make your heart beat a bit faster
than usual. Most honest people get frustrated. In this case you don’t owe him one red cent,
but that said: This is a good case for you and for all of us. This case could be turned into
something great. I would personally have taken a phonecall to the guy that has “lost” his money. During that conversation you both will grow. I do believe that call will sort things out. Keep an open mind, an bring the result back to your blog for us to learn.
What ever you do, I’d like to say this: Eric I do really appreciate all the good content that
post, and I do respect you for sharing this case openly with us.
Best regards,
arthur taubo
Eric,
I think you`re pretty safe on this one,eventhough [redacted] did an acceptable for you does not mean it will work out with the next customer.
And in all honesty, I think this blog will most certainly affect his doing business with the public in the future.
Deb
Hi Eric, I’m very sorry to hear about this, both parties are in my opinion partly responsible (and it’s only my opinion)as I don’t think points of law really come into it, this would be a point of joint moral liability, firstly the readers fault for not checking out the social proof before hiring a copywriter, and I’m sure just about everyone on this page has been scammed on the internet, there are fare more scammers than genuine people out there, if I were you I would feel a moral obligation, a duty of care if you like to try to help, if you could not contact the copywriter, perhaps you have similar copywriting to his needs that you could give him so he could adapt it to his needs, perhaps you can help him in others ways with his venture, even if it is just help and not just hard cash, I’m sure that your reader would feel at least partially compensated if you gave him a little of your time and personally helped him out, it doesn’t have to cost you much if anything, but it would create viral brownie points for you Eric, you become the hero in the situation, but I do agree that recommendation from one person should not be held up as liability from another, but if you are seen to try to help, you will come out whiter than white. hope this helps – John Robbins
Eric: I guess it’s like a broken record of how many people get ripped off DAILY. In your case YOU are not at fault. You wrote your recommendation on YOUR experience. Maybe all IM should put a statement to the effect that, ” Please check all companies out with BBB before investing in any company. All situations may very.” Then you cover your self. I wish I had of done that before I lost $10,000.00 + in a company that has a “F” rating. I don’t do IM anymore. I can’t afford it. This Nick sounds like someone who should have been checked out by BBB. Who ever has had a problem with him, Please report him to BBB. Lets try and stop these people who take others money knowing they are going to rip off the poor sole that is just trying to make a living the honest way. ” buyer beware”
Hi Eric,
I really feel for Dragutin. It’s very frustrating to lose money when a company does not deliver (even at times a ‘reputable’ company). And this does not just happen in the internet world, so I hope this incident does not deter Dragutin from pursuing his business.
In future, I suggest he submit smaller projects to a new vendor first, until they have an established working relationship. And agreeing to a delivery timeline before paying.
I cannot comment on the legal aspect as I am not a lawyer. I do not believe you should provide a refund to this gentleman. If you do provide him with a refund, I think you’re setting a dangerous precedent for yourself, and for other marketers. If everyone provided a refund for something-gone-bad, no one would make recommendations (compensated or not), and no one would sell. Imagine a car salesman being asked to pay for the cost of a customer’s car if the customer is not satisfied with the car three months later. No one would sell cars. Or if your neighbor recommended a certain model to you because they were happy with it, and you got a ‘lemon’ and you requested your neighbor to pay for your car’s purchase price?
If there is any way you can help Dragutin with getting his money back from this copywriter, I think you should try, and maybe going public will help achieve that.
Certainly, by not delivering an acceptable service and not refunding Dragutin’s money, this copywriter is destroying his credibility and his business.
Eric,
You are not legally responsible, but perhaps ethically and morally indebted to this guy, since you endorsed the service. Maybe you should offer a partial refund?
Hi Eric,
I don’t believe you are responsible for a refund from this unsatisfied customer.
From all the materiel I’ve read, it seems that the customer did not investigate his vendor thoroughly until too late.
The internet is filled with people claiming to be the answer to making money so in the future, for you: investigate your sources BEFORE recommending and for your customer a recommendation is fine so long as you research BEFORE spending money.
Eric –
I see no liability on your part. It’s up to each of us to check-out vendors and take responsibility for what we purchase. It was the copywriter who did not deliver, not you. Posting this item and asking for feedback is above and beyond the call of duty, and a helpful reminder to all of us in your large and loyal community to do our own due diligence before we take the leap and purchase anything. Thanks for your open, honest and valued communication.
Hi Eric
I’ve got to be honest, I totally agree with other people’s sentiments that you are one of the best of the Internet Marketers around! You are very much in the same league as my other favourite, Yaro Starak, who is also one of the most honest and upright operators in this field. Indeed, I recently read a post on his blog where he wrestled with a moral issue himself: outsourcing to places like the Phillipines but paying people only $2 an hour!
I think you are certainly not culpable here. As the others have said, you made the recommendation in good faith, you received no renumeration from the affiliate sale and have since withdrawn your recommendation once a problem became apparent.
I have found your online lessons and guidance to be invaluable and fascinating. You obviously put a lot of personal time and effort into producing them and distribute them for free, when you could well charge for them at the same time! This speaks volumes in itself.
In terms of the customer, yes it is unfortunate but the old saying ‘Caveat Emptor’ wholly applies here. You could, as others have suggested, offer him some compensatory copy-writing material as an act of good faith, but to part with money may well open the flood gates for you. It think this customer needs to learn a valuable lesson when using freelancers. To coin a phrase made by one of my favourite writing and motivational coaches: ‘inspect don’t expect!’
very best regards
As you can see from all the replies here you would be vindicated in refusing to pay any compensations to this person. You wree acting with prior knowledge and satisfaction at his work done for you, but obviously as you have found the copywriter has broken agreements and therefore you were right to say that you no longer endorse his business. I can see no recompense for his actions of paying the amount before he recieved the work… end of!
Eric: you have not contravened any FTC ruling.
You checked the copywriter out first.
It appears the facts are stacked against this
person in his misleading advertising. Any court
would find you not liable for this,rather the
advertiser. Doug
No, you’re not liable, nor should you do it.
It does show your character and integrity Eric for even considering it. One advice that I thought was the best is that you offer the guy the equivalent value (or more!) in services that you offer.
If the guy is sincere in his business to succeed, he’ll take you up on it. If he’s just a whiner, complainer, and a blamer, he won’t and you’ll know what you have.
Good luck and please keep is in the loop!
Eric, if you had good copy write from the copywriter, but this other person said what he got back was not
anything he could use, then you should ask him to send you a copy of his copy write from the copywriter,
with information about what it was for, so you can judge for yourself. Then you should contact the copywriter
yourself to get his story about it, and why he did what he did in writing the copy, this way you would know
the whole story… But as you said the copy write you ordered worked for what you needed, so you did everything in good faith, and you are not at fault here as I see it, and should not have to pay for something that even you did not get a commission for, and ask why you did not get the commission… Was The Fee Paid to the copywriter for his services? You need to get information from each of them…
James
I don’t feel that you should bear responsibility for someone else’s actions even though you recommended the copywriter. This should be between the copywriter and the person with the complaint. I see it like this, if I recommend my mechanic and he doesn’t repair your car satisfactorily would you hold me responsible?
Hi Eric,
I dont think BBB endorsements are any of the more conventional offline benchmarks are relevant here. IM and affiliate marketing operate in a much faster and looser environment.
There is always an element of risk in dealing with a one man show. Even if the person or entity was of sterling character and 100% reliable up to now, what happens if he is in an accident or dies –
5 minutes after you PayPal him the money?
Are you going to go after his heirs?
I dont think you are at all liable for the refund (even though Im sure it wouldnt hurt you financially).
But, if I were you I would consider offering him some sort of booby prize.
One of your courses, some coaching, maybe a back-link or two from a high PR site you may own?
It would reinforce your nice guy image, and prevent the possibility of you having to waste a lot of time and money fighting a rear-guard action of defending your reputation –
for who knows how long?
If you did this, you might want to get him to sign off on no future liability – hold harmless type of statement.
Your credibility would soar, and the cost would be minimal to you.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Oolie
Unfortunately doing business has some problems. It really comes down to how your actions are viewed by consumers and colleagues.
Eric, you are a great writer yourself. Offer your services for the amount in question. Provide this person with some mentoring, after all, he really is not wanting a refund but some expert help.
I think there are MANY good comments above. I do not think you did anything wrong, and you definitely are not liable or obligated to pay the gentleman for his loss.
If, under other circumastances, the AFFILIATE COMMISSION HAD BEEN PAID, the ethical choice would have been to refund it. Since this has not happened, then “Buyer Beware”.
Hi Eric. I feel his pain and yours too. No-one wins here no matter what. Perhaps if you feel so inclined to preserve best customer relations you might offer D one of your own products. Do not give any refund as you could be setting the wrong precedence. Keep up the great work you do.
Well Eric i feel that you do not owe him anything reason being its not your fault the copy writter did do his job properly so in this case he needs to get his money from the copy writer and 2 why would anyone pay for a job before its done .VERY DUMB ON HIS PART!!!
Eric:
While you are not responsible for the failure of the copywriter to produce as contracted, I feel you are morally obligated to make sure this never happens again.
I suggest you use your experience and connections to put this copywriter out of business. Many of us respect you as an honest person.
I believe you have a responsibility to correct the matter. I think the amount represented as lost by the user of your recommendation is high compared to what you paid for your use of the copywriter. I would request a copy of the written piece and evaluate for yourself. If the product is inferior, request that the copywriter redo the piece. Your responsibility is to investigate and see if the person was truly let down by your recommendation. If he was and the copywriter cannot (or will not) correct the matter,Pay the person what he was billed and what he paid for the inferior service. Your future business depends on your word and it is the right thing to do.
Good day sir: There is definately a problem here. The thing in affiliate marketing is all you(I) are doing is giving another parson a place, address to look at and they are supposed to do there own research as to if this is a place or business I want to be envolved with. I see that the only responsiblty you have is that you gave this person a place to look for what he wanted. You advised him to look not to buy. In the few lessons I have obsvered from you and others is to look but CHECK THEM OUT first before you step in with both feet. I have made some of these fool mistakes and learned through foolish greed that this was the one that would make me HA! HA! rich.!!! YEA! NUTS! No such luck.? This guy must do like one of the people said write it off as a business expense,(learning experience). Pick up the marbles and move on to the next experience and hope not to make the same one again.. NO! unfortunatly for the guy you do not owe him one thin dime. He must admit to his mistake and not blame you or any one else for his mistakes. I believe he is just fishing to see what would happen. So I wish you good luck in your decision. Buiness wise this is a double edge sword. Again good luck. ~~Glen
Although you are not legally or maybe even technically responsible, I think the right thing to do is to offer some assistance. In lieu of a refund you could help him by offering a service to help his project get up and running or find him another copywriter at your own expense. Give him some of your products etc. That way you are living up to your reputation but nor really claiming responsibility for someone else’s actions.
It would be an incredibly nice thing for you to refund the money but no you are not liable. There is no telling what happened to the copywriter that made him become unreliable but since you didn’t have anything to do with that, it is not your fault.
The best thing to do is not pay anything until the product is ready. I have been ripped off as well from the opposite point of view. I am an artist and did a portrait for a customer. He paid the deposit quickly and well and in good faith I sent him the painting and he never finished paying for it. Basically as sad as it seems, there is no way to know when people are going to get over. We just have to take as many precautions as possible to try not to get taken advantage of by other people.
Hello…I am not impressed with people who go on recommendations with no due diligence done on their part. Eric …people you sell to …be responsible to them…but not third party decisions someone else makes.
I believe that everyone needs to Be Responsible for their own actions …not to mention…DO NOT give someone that much money until you see the product or at least 50% of the finished job!!!!
Come on people this is not a babysitting service in this business…..you are supposed to check this out no matter what someone else says……quit passing the buck!!!!
Eric-
Kudos to you for even considering this situation and posting it on your blog. It is an interesting case we can all learn from.
I agree with the majority that you absolutely do not have any responsibility to the buyer.
HOWEVER, I personally think you should do something since it is the “right” thing to do, and it would be a huge self-marketing success (especially with your skills). The transparency of your actions and outcome for all your blog readers to see will have fantastic results.
You are an awesome copywriter, so you could work out an arrangement to provide him what he was attempting to purchase from the scammer. That simple action could pay huge dividends later. I would be hesitant to offer a straight refund.
I personally don’t think it would open the flood gates of similar requests, but subsequent disclaimers could prevent that.
You do not owe this guy crap. If you tell me a Volkswagen Tiguan is a great SUV and I go out and buy one. I can not come to you and make you give me the freaking money I put down on it back, when it breaks down. Let’s face it, everyone has been burned in this biz at some point. It is the nature of the beast in this industry. I know where your heart is and you have never been a fly by night scam artist. I am sure I, and your readers who read this, will all agree. You have provided $100’s of thousands of valuable info to us and if anything we freaking owe you money. I would tell this dude that you are sorry. You provided something that you thought at the time was for his or her best interest. But in this case, you are not refunding their money because you can not be responsible for someone else’s negligence. You always try to help people. Whether it is mission trips, or giving peeps knowledge to make money online. I have been burned for way more than that. Try losing in the $250k+ range. Now that is something to bitch about 😉
In my opinion you owe nothing to the unfortunate user of the copy writer. You made the recommendation in good faith, having had a past good experience with him. It is puzzling that the copy writer seems to have turned bad, apparently also for other customers, not just this one. You dont owe him anything, but you might refund some part of the $1344 the copywriter was paid, as a goodwill gesture. You certainly do not want to refund the entire sum as this would discourage the customer from getting satisfaction from the copywriter, either in the form of acceptable copy, or a refund. in the interest of future business one would think that had the copywriter any marbles he would be anxious to satisfy the client, one way or another, in the interest of future business and to avoid adverse publicity.
Ithink you are not responsible at all for things that other people did.
Don’t feel yourself guilty!
You are a really kind, careful and helpful person. Keep your good habits for a long time!
Maria
I think that the rule of: CAVEAT EMPTOR applies here..
First of all (and I have been guilty of it before) paying anybody in full up front is very poor business judgment.
Maybe a payment of 1/3, see some progress, then 1/3 a little more and then the balance on completion..
As far as your liability — I certainly don’t see any culpability on your part.
You are only recommending based on your experience.
In the US you wouldnt be responsible since you received no compensation for referring business to this individual. In the UK it might be different as their government is more a socialist regime.
Also looking at the emails I believe the copywriter feels he provided the copy as agreed and now the person changed what he wanted and wants him to redo the work without compensation. Builders call that a change order and in the US again the client is responsible for the costs. Here again you are not responsible for the guys miscommunications with the copywriter.