Yesterday I received an email from a reader who had hired a copywriter based on my recommendation in late 2009.
Unfortunately, he was not happy with the sales letter he received from the copywriter, and the copywriter allegedly did not complete the work he had been paid to do.
About seven weeks ago, the reader wrote to me about his negative experience with this copywriter. It was the second complaint I had received from readers regarding this copywriter, and I had also received an additional warning from a fellow marketer.
At that point, I pulled my endorsement of the copywriter, and made it clear on my website that I am no longer recommending him.
Now yesterday I received another email from the reader…
Hi Eric,
I hope you are well.
Just to let you know I contacted BBB.org, PayPal and my credit card company.
The business of [redacted] is not registered with BBB.org.
The complaint with PayPal can only be filed within 45 days from the date of payment and that period is exceeded due to [redacted] procrastination and the story telling.
My credit card company is not able to provide the refund of $1344 I paid to [redacted] for the letters he never wrote as there is an involvement from PayPal between them and the vendor.
I acted on your recommendation to choose services of [redacted] as you described him trustworthy and reliable.
From all people and businesses who gave testimonials on his web site only one responded on my enquiry.
The others simply ignored my enquiry and some of the have URL error.
I do not want to lose $1344 USD for nothing as I acted in full honesty and transparency and am asking you to provide me with the full refund.
Hope to hear from you soon.
Kind regards
Dragutin
As you’ve seen, the reader is asking me to compensate him for the payment he made to the copywriter.
I should mention that I do appreciate his polite tone. If he had sent a “flame” I wouldn’t be featuring it here.
I asked him for some additional information, and here is a copy of his communications with the copywriter:
PDF of email correspondence [redacted]
So there are really two questions at stake here…
1) Am I legally liable for the products I endorse or promote as an affiliate?
2) What is the right and ethical thing to do?
The ramifications are very significant, because the answers to these questions affect not only this situation but also…
– Everything I endorse/promote.
– Everyone who endorses anything or promotes something as an affiliate.
This is why the Internet marketing world was in a tizzy last December when the FTC rolled out their new guidelines for endorsements and testimonials.
So let’s answer the first question, as it applies to this situation:
Am I legally liable?
According to the FTC, endorsers may be liable for false or unsubstantiated claims made in an endorsement, or for failure to disclose material connections between the advertiser and endorsers.
Let’s talk about false or unsubstantiated claims.
If I had blindly promoted the product/service without checking it out first (as many affiliates do in this industry, and as I have done in the past on occasion), then I believe I might bear liability if my claims did not match up to the product. Let that be a word of warning to all affiliate marketers: You ARE responsible for what you say/write.
However, in this case I was speaking from first-hand experience. I had actually paid this copywriter $197 to write a sales letter for me, and I felt that the product I received was a good value for the amount that I had paid.
Therefore, my claim was substantiated, and I made the recommendation in good faith that the copywriter would provide similar value for other customers.
Now let’s talk about disclosing material connections.
I initially wrote my recommendation in October of 2009, which was prior to the new FTC guidelines going into effect.
When the new guidelines went into effect on December 1st, I added an “Affiliate & Material Connection Statement” to my website, which I believe satisfies this requirement. If I am shown otherwise, then I might need to get more aggressive about disclosing material/affiliate relationships.
In this particular case, I never did get paid an affiliate commission for the sale in question. So I’m not sure how that affects the material connection from a legal standpoint. Am I still an affiliate if I’m getting scammed too?
OK, so in my opinion I am NOT legally liable for the copywriter’s failure in this situation.
But that brings us to the next question…
What is the right and ethical thing to do?
Although I am someone who believes in absolute truth, and a clear distinction between right and wrong… the realm of ethics can still be grey at times.
I’ve tried to put myself in the customer’s shoes.
If I were him, I probably would have written the same email to me.
I’ve been a victim of scams in the past, so I’m familiar with what he is feeling. It’s one of the worst feelings that the pallet of human emotions can paint. Anger, frustration, regret, self-loathing… all rolled into one. The only way out of it is to go through the grief cycle, and reach a point of acceptance.
From the look of my dear reader’s emails, he’s gone through the denial and anger stages, and has now come around to the bargaining stage. Like I said, I’d be bargaining too.
I see this from two perspectives… justice, and compassion.
From the justice standpoint, I believe it would not be right for me to give him the refund out of my own pocket. Would justice be served by this? No.
Now… IF I had been paid a commission, I do think partial justice could be served if I refunded that commission to the customer. But in this case, there is no commission to speak of.
From a compassion standpoint, I’d love to help out my reader.
If we were talking about a much smaller dollar amount, I probably would have just offered to pay for it (or more likely… I wouldn’t have gotten an email about it in the first place). But $1344 is a decent chunk of change.
We all know the golden rule: do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
If it were the other way around, would I want him to pay for my refund out of his pocket? Yes I would, at this moment in time. But after more time has passed, I would most likely come to the conclusion that justice would not be served by an otherwise innocent affiliate paying me out of his own pocket.
In other words, my sense of justice would eventually trump my desire for recompense. (The two are not mutually exclusive. The victim should be paid back in order for justice to be served, but taking the money from the wrong person is not the solution)
So I do not think it is my moral obligation to pay for the customer’s loss…
But I want to know what YOU think!
I told the customer I would post this on my blog, and take my reader’s opinions into consideration.
I want to know:
What would you do in my situation, and why?
I am absolutely willing to pay a full refund to the customer if the arguments in his favor outweigh the arguments against.
I wish I could just err on the side of compassion, but obviously such a precedent could open me up to a lot of headaches and abuse due to other customers taking advantage of my leniency. If that is the outcome, then I will probably change some things about how I run my business.
Post your comments below. Please do not “trash” me OR the customer or even the copywriter. That’s not the point of this. At the same time I am not necessarily looking for support. I want your honest opinion, even if you are not on my side.
Obviously this is not something that needed to be made public, but I am doing so because I think we can have a good constructive conversation. This is an important topic that affects all Internet marketers. So let us know what you think.
Thanks for your input!
UPDATE: I’ve now posted the conclusion to this saga here:
I DON’T THINK YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS REFUND. IT HAS ALREADY BEEN SETTLED, NONE OF THE CELEBRITIES THAT ENDORSE PRODUCTS IN COMMERCIALS CAN BE SUED IF A PRODUCT DOESN’T MEET THE CONSUMER’S SATISFACTION. HOWEVER THEY MUST ALSO USETHE PRODUCT THEY ENDORSE.
No! you are not responsible. People must take responsibility for their actions. Gather the facts & make a decision. It is not whether it is a lot or little money. Right is right and wrong is wrong. Legally you are not responsible.
Jim
One’s protection is the PayPal guarantee. It should not have been allowed that that period lapse.
Eric, sounds to me like he is looking for someone to help him in this problem. He has to deal with the sales guy and work it out! It is his business with the sales guy and you are not liable for what the sales guy promises to his customers. I don’t know what his deal is in this matter, maybe he’s burned out on writing, who knows! You are not responsible for his actions. Franklin
Hi Eric,
Before you can even choose which direction to go you need some sort of proof that the person in question has not already received a refund. As well, has he exhausted all avenues to get the refund? Will he still pursue trying to find the copywriter to get a refund from him even though you chose to oblige his request of you? Too many “dark” areas to consider. As so many say, “Buyer beware.”
Eric,
I’ve known you for a while, and you don’t promote rubbish to your readers. It’s not in your interest to promote stuff that’ll put your name into disrepute.
I have two partners and they are BOTH lawyers, and I can tell you with 100% certainty that you do not owe a cent to anyone in this instance. Also, because of your website terms and conditions you’d be highly unwise to offer any kind of refund. You’ve asked people’s opinions here, but at the end of the day opinions are just that… opinions!
I have also been ripped off by [redacted]s – there you go – he’s written to me several times and he knows what I can do if I really want, but payback and karma can be a b%^*ch 🙂
Eric, wake up and smell the roses – we are all personally responsible in life for our own buying decisions – not from the person who referred us onto the seller!
Would I feel morally belittled because of [redacted] being a wanker and making you feel bad… YES… but would I feel bad that one of your readers spent WAY more than [redacted]’s standard rates to get copy done… NO!
Up to you Eric, but all of your future dealings with your readers, customers and clients will all be hanging on your decision today… you know you don’t owe anything bar an apology in this case!
[redacted], I know you’ll be reading these comments, so now I know about this, know about the trouble you’ve caused so many people, screwed around with Ryan etc, all I can say is “guard yourself accordingly”!
David Cavanagh
You are not responsable for his refund.I feel for him like everyone we all have been ripped off before.Lesson learnt.
You do not owe him a refund at all. You gave an honest recommendation about your real experience, and you can’t be held financially responsible if the experience for this person turned bad.
Like others have wisely said above if someone recommends a contractor, a mechanic, a restaurant, etc and the experience is bad a refund is not the responsibility of the person that gave the opinion. I don’t even think people would consider this for a short amount of time even.
A refund from you in this situation is like you having to serve prison time for a crime you never committed. Here is an example.
You recommend a bank to someone you meet. That person goes to that bank on your recommendation and while they are there a bank robbery occurs. During the robbery the person you recommended the bank to gets injured. The bank robber later gets caught, but our court system lets him off free.
So now the person you recommended the bank to decides to file charges against you for the injuries occurred because he went to a bank on your recommendation. You get put in prison now and are serving time for something you never committed.
Ok, so I know that sounds ridiculous, but in all seriousness that is what we are dealing with here! The issue that happened in this case with the copywriter just like in my little side story above is 100% out of your control!
I am really surprised that your reader even approached you for a refund! I could understand an email of warning about this guy, but asking for a refund when you weren’t even responsible is amazing. It takes a lot of guts to even do this.
I feel awful for this guy, but really it is all a matter of due diligence. It seems like you only paid this copywriter $197 and this guy paid him $1,344. He paid him almost 7 times more so the service he paid for was probably different than what you paid for. So your customer or reader that took the recommendation should have been more cautious when he signed on for this job.
Eric, you are a great person, but you are not responsible at all!
Hi Eric,
Legally you don’t owe the money. However, as a Christian we want to do right by other folks and have compassion for what they are going through. My suggestion, since you are good at copywriting yourself, would be to do a sales letter for him or have one done, so that he can proceed to progress with his business.
I would also suggest that you post something with your recommendations in the future, stating that this is just a recommendation and you are not responsible for any possible changes (or future reliability) in the one you are recommending and that the customer check them out himself – so that this does not become something others will ask of you.
This person needs a sales letter and it doesn’t seem like he can pay for it again. That would be my compassionate response – to try to help him with his problem, but protect yourself for the future.
FYI -I have appreciated very much all your good advice over the years.
In Christ,
Nancy N.
Eric,
Thank You for bringing this to our collective attention – while this type of refund request does not happen that often, it is something that any serious marketer needs to be aware of. So we need to apply more due diligence before promoting products and also look at our disclosure and disclaimer statements …
Ani
Is that guy does not have brain? He knows for sure to whom he send the money, and why ask for refund from you?
Oh come on! seriously man, who in their right mind would even remotely consider giving a refund for someone elses product/service?
I understand the desire to keep a good relationship with the guy who felt burned, but paying him for his failures is not an acceptable response.
I read your post and if i’m not mistaking, you said you would have done the same if you were in his shoes – Well, I think thats really a low level position to take.
Look, we are all adults, we all know the nature of the net, and ultimately we are all responsible for doing our own due diligence reguarding any purchase.
We do not get paid for making bad choices regardless of how we came to the conclusion of making a purchase.
You already know that from the legal stand point you are 100% in the clear, so what you are really focusing on here is the ethical position, and you are exploiting that position by engaging your readers just as any good marketer would do.
If you do have some sort of brain-drain and decide to give that guy money, I just want you to know that my third cousin once met his step uncle in a bar and the step uncle told my third cousin that he had $2,000 in his car and that my cousin could have it if he gave the step uncle a $200 deposit. Therefor, since there is a connection to this guy, who is also in some way connected to you, and there was no $2,000 in that car, pluse my cousin lost that $200, I think that you should pay me the money lost on that transaction because we are all connected in some way.
Oh wait.. come to think about it, since we are all on the net, why don’t you just cut me a check for every purchase ever made that someone was not happy about – i think that should square everything away perfectly!
Okay, yeah I made light of the situation, but really, come the f%^k on!
I feel that Mr. D should have checked on Mr. C’s reputation and work ethics as well as with the BBB, credit card company and certainly before he paid out that large amount of money before he received his services for which he paid. It’s a Buyer Beware sort of country or world. I’m sure that doesn’t make you feel any better, but I think justice is/or would be served.
I don’t see how you could be responsible. I’d consult with your attorney on this one. You have disclaimers on your site. Everything on the web should be listed as buyer beware. Everyone needs to be responsible for investigating on their own. You had good service from that copyrighter and you spoke of that specific service. I think a lawyer would say you are not responsible. You have compassion and you have done the right thing to discuss it but I’d put an end to it after you discuss with your lawyer.
I think you cannot pay for something that you did not do though if you empathise with him you can assit him.
I have recieved requests like this before as well. It boggles my mind that people get involved with someone else but because the read or heard about them on my (or in this case your) site they feel I am (or you are) somehow respondsible for their decisions and the third parties negligence.
Not only do I not feel you are under no liability or obligation for or to this person, but I feel the person whom wrote this email in some ways is also respondsible for the transaction going the way it did.
Let me explain.
When a transaction involving that kind of money is conducted both parties should have a written agreement that spells out all possible outcomes, including rights if the transaction is not fulfilled as specified and/or not fulfilled up to the quality of standards as are expected.
If a time restraint for a refund is looming, you as the payee do not continue to wait, you instead begin proceedings to protect yourself against the transaction not being fulfilled, and you as the payee clearly state and follow through with this with the outsourced individual kept in the loop and fully made aware you are taking such action.
Then I have to ask myself, Who pays that much money out of pocket without putting it in escrow to make sure they get delivery of the said product? Or does so without a written guarantee of some type?
I have had people buy products from them for as little as $500 dollars and we still had a contract, and other protections in place for both of us. Iterestingly enough when I asked for these verifications and protections the reply I got from the person buying the product (It was a domain name purchase and transfer) was — “The fact you have asked for confirmation, verification and proof of my identifty actually makes me feel better because I now have the confidence you are a business person who acts respondsibly and carefully. It has brought some relief to me to know you asked for verification and a signed contract”
What a pleasure to do business with someone else who understands what contracts and protections are for and can do to strengthen a relationship between a customer and vendor.
I guess my point is buyer beware, know all expectations, and rights, from both sides before entering into any kind of transaction, and excercise any rights you have before those rights are removed due to time restrioctions or other contractural limitations.
i feel for the individual, it’s an expensive lesson to learn, but a contract between two parties is just that. Between the two parties and as such needs to be resolved by or between those two individuals. No one else is obligated legally or morally to become involved.
Of course it’s not your responsibility.
Buyers should always investigate the seller closely before purchase.
Rob
Hi Lory,
I just had to tell you that reading your comment to Eric was the highlight of my day. The world is truly at our fingertips today, via the internet, isn’t it?!
We can venture into the world each day able to drink the knowledge of yesterday, today and tomorrow long before afternoon tea!
I so enjoyed the eloquence of your writing; your insightful advice, indeed the art.
Regards,
Melissa
Hi there Eric,
Well, I did feel sorry for the man until I read through the PDF of letters. The incongruency between his actual financial state and the one he is telling everyone in the sales letter he now enjoys due to using the product that HE IS ENDORSING, I think is farcical !!! A case of the pot calling the kettle and this case the kettle (you) is innocent.
My solution: to placate the complainant and satisfy your conscience, I think I would offer him one of your products that you think may help his business for free. This way your outlay is nill to minimum, the complainant is or SHOULD feel satisfied and you will have done more than I think you are required to do.
May God Bless you with the perfect solution.
Robert.
Eric, This is it! Justice seasoned by mercy… perfect. . the high road, no regrets only the gift. Nothing else matters.
In Him,
Melissa 🙂
Eric
You are not in the wrong and it’s not your fault, Sure You recommended him, but for work you had done for $197 which you were happy with. He should have checked up on his (the writers) previous work himself to double check and not pay the full amount up front.
Let the buyer beware! This is the rule in England so no you are not responsible. I like probably many online businesses have been “conned” “ripped off” and defrauded to the tune of many thousands of pounds. That was and is my problem and where fraud has happened have sought redress sometimes with success but mostly without. Online business like any other demands that before you invest your money you take precautions to see that you will get value for money. No precautions means lost money.
Hi Eric, So sorry you are dealing with this. I also live by the “Golden Rule” and my conscience always tells me what’s right. I definitely do not believe you are responsible for reimbursing this past customer. Like you said, you had a positive experience with the third party and recommended him in good faith. It was up to this customer to do “due diligence” in researching anyone he chose to do business with. I feel sorry for your customer because he was obviously ripped off, but I believe his proper recourse is to file a small claims suit against the vendor to reclaim his money from him. Hope that helps! Take Care.
you gave rec. because you had good experiance with him but i feel you might help with trying to help get his money back even if its not your fault
Well,it really does not seem to difficult.
By recommending, you are endorcing.
That being said it would perhaps be more productive to offer that person any resources
you may have at your disposal(little or no cost) to help in accomplishing what they were paying to have created.
With such an act,many will belive agin.Belive someone out there is honest and belives in what they say.In the e-world where you can’t
trust many.I know this guy ERIC,you can trust him!
That’s what they’ll be saying!
That’s how I would like everyone 2 view me and my biz.@The KING of VALUE.
In the end,
THE MORE WE HELP OTHERS,THE MORE MONEY WE MAKE
Very eager to know what you dicide.
Do keep us all informed.
Sorry to add this after my first post, but recently (and I get this asked of me almost weekly) to make a recommendation of a IM product.
I replied that I do not make recommendation of a Yes and No nature. Meaning I may give my own personal views of a product, but I always stipulate it is my opinion only and what they do is their own decision.
And when I told him this, I specifical stated I do not say yes do it or don’t do it because I learned a long time ago I do not know what is best or not best for anyone except myself, and I do not want to shoulder the respondsibility that someone may come back to me and say — “But you told me to….”
Being in a position that yeilds power and can sway others is one that I feel should always be taken very seriously, and always from the eyes of the person with whom I am involved and giving information to.
Just wanted to put that out there.
You are not responsible. What I mean by this is there is no legal responsibility. However, I can empathize from both points of view. He feels, If not for your recommendation/direction he would not have pursued this contact. On the other hand, you did provide the contact based on good faith and your own experience and know that customer satisfaction is very important.
Maybe you feel you have a moral responsibility to your customer for his loss! Not so much because you were misleading, likely more so because the customer did not receive the services he was promised.
Ultimately it is the customer who has to provide due diligence regardless of the recommendation.
Unless I misread the PDF it seems unclear just what was agreed upon.
Who sends that kind of money without a clearly written contract for services?
The refund should come from the vendor. Do we really need to have a disclaimer for everything!
As a good faith gesture, why not offer to provide him with the use of your copywriter.
I rely on your recommendations as well but I research other options as well before making a decision.
I agree that the customer should have searched online to find out additional information about the copywriter.
Going by one person’s recommendation, even someone like Eric, should have not been the final decision maker for the customer.
I’ve paid out hundreds of dollars for a product that I haven’t gone through with, so who’s fault is that? Mine. If I didn’t want to spend all that money and not apply it, then I shouldn’t have spent it.
I trying to think of an analogy to apply to this, and the best at this time of the morning I can give is like being introduced to a person (male or female) and finally marrying that person. Subsequently, the relationship deteriorate and they blame the person who introduced them both? How can they do that?
I don’t think Eric is to blame at all in this, from a ethically or morally ground.
Brian
Oprah endorses bunch of products on each and every show. What if some of these products didn’t work for an individual? Should Oprah refund that individual’s money? I don’t think so. So you should not refund that money.
I’m sorry to hear it. Did he deliver any finished work to you though?
The person’s obvious track is now a lawsuit against the copywriter (not you) as he has exhausted his other options. You are not liable, all you did was recommend someone you did business with who supplied a satisfactory service to you, hence the recommendation. I feel sorry for the person who lost the money but the loss was due to the failure of the person he contracted with, not with you. If you were liable, legally or ethically, nobody could recommend anyone again without having an insurance policy against incidents like this. You didn’t even earn a commission, so you’re not party to the person you recommended in any any way.
My understanding is that it is the finished sales letter delivered by the writer. But the customer is claiming that the letter is not relevant to the product. I’d be happy to hear the copywriter’s side of the story, and I’ve asked him but have yet to receive a response.
thanks Paul 🙂
scenario: my friend tells me to buy a product because it’s working wonders for her. I trust her and off I go to buy the product. The product is a disaster – it does not do for me what it did for my friend.
I say to my friend: Gee, you’re lucky that product worked for you, but it didn’t work for me. My friend says: Aw gee, I’m sorry it didn’t work for you. I say: Oh well, it’s okay, these things happen.
I go to the product manufacturer though, and complain the product didn’t work, and hope to get a refund. I certainly don’t ask my friend to refund me. If it was a very expensive product, I might not talk to her for a month or two, but I’ll get over it, because it wasn’t her fault it didn’t work for me. If she’s a really good friend, she might come with me to the manufacturer to explain how the product worked for her and not for me, and explain to the manufacturer she’s upset and even embarsassed that she promoted a product of theirs that worked for her, but not for her friend (me).
Eric, you are not responsible for this amount lost by one of your readers.
Hi Eric,
I realy feel that you are not responsible. You made a recomendation to the product but not force him to buy it. Yes i also acted on some adverts, to my regret, but afterall it is me that pushed the button for going ahead to buy the product. I feel that the seller of the product is liable for the refund and not the affiliate. Better would be if the owner of the product could step in and help this guy sorting the problem. This is quite an eye opener!
Christelle
I Eric thanks for your leadership. I don’t know if your reading this. You are not responsible but, I think because of being in the position of leadership and building relationships in this business that you should see if you could help him get what he wanted a sale’s page. I beleive that down the road that good can only come from this because you don’t find people that are willing to help someone if they are not getting something. I think helping people in this way is the next level in this business that no one has tapped. People beleive in you and trust you, I know I do.
Making a buying decision that turns out badly is regretable and costly… I for one have lost money, I could ill afford! We are all grown ups we known “crap” happens! I do not judge an affiliate who acted in good faith,as been to blame… so long as once they are aware of a problem they stop promoting and issue a warning! It is a just a simple fact that the risks offline are with us all online and mistakes are made, and we grow and learn with them!
I made a comment earlier, and want to add one more thing.
The customer has exhausted all of his possibilities for getting their money back and now they want Eric to pick up the “refund” tab. Perhaps they should have looked at what they should do sooner.
Brian
Hi Eric,
what a dilemma.
Its unfortunate that you, who is well known for your high standard of ethics in marketing,
should fall into this.
Recommending someone who turned out to be not so honourable.
I believe you would be liable to give him your commission, but you didnt receive any.
Your customer did not practice due diligence.
I would never pay someone $1300 straight up with no prior history, no matter who recommended them.
He should have started with a small job to test quality etc,
then make arrangement for partial payments on such an amount as this.With at least 50% held till final delivery.
If supplier doesnt do this, there are many freelance services to go to.
Unfortunately I would be seething for blood if I got scammed for that much!
How about posting to forums about this guy,
find out how many people he has adversely affected, and try and put him out of business.
I recently got scammed for $97.00 by a well known 2nd level marketer, who failed to deliver product as specified, I raised a paypal dispute, which vehemently denied, and promised tom make everything right, a quick flurry of positive emails for 2 days, then nothing, no communication.
If this was local business you could at least go and knock on his door and sort it out,
But over the internet, operating in different countries, marketers have to work extra hard to create credibility.
ON the same hand, customers should practise due diligence in doing business with peoiple they dont know well.
In your situation, you have no obligation,
however, as a semi successful ( or completely successful!!)
marketer, if your guy is really hurting financially from this loss, perhaps you could help him set up a little affiliate site and coach himn to make his money back.
Therefore you give some of your time, and possibly your resources, but no out of pocket cash.
Your guy gets to learn more about IM, and makes good his loss.
You can feel good about your ethics and know full well that you have done far more than any
moral stance would dictate.
But really, your guy is to blame for his loss,
as bad as he feels, never pay ourtsurces 100% upfront, unless you know the person and have worked with them on many projects before
Goodluck to the both of you.
And may the scammer read this posts too and burn!
I do not think you should pay him any money at all. If you want to help morally then maybe you
could use your influence to have [redacted] refund his money or a at least a part of it. From what I read on the pdf file it wasn’t even stated up front what Dragutin even wanted other than a sales letter. Maybe just giving him some education on how to do due diligence would help him. NO MONEY from YOU.
Its not your problem eric,migraines can hit at anytime,any of us can go down in performance for a million reasons.
The copywriter should plead a bad week and offer to do some first class writing to double the value of the guys loss in compensation,obviously he is a capable writer because you found it of an acceptable standard and im sure you are a good critic of copy and we all have our off times, so i think the copywriter deserves a chance to prove how skilled he really is and everybody wins.
Let’s take a real example of the same thing… I’m an internet marketer (run a real-world SEM agency)… I work quite a bit with developers and startups, and as such have alot of opportunity to recommend developers to business owners & vice versa.
I recently had a 6 figure deal go down, where the startup co. felt that deliverables weren’t given etc., forced them to redo the whole thing from scratch, and look for a second round of financing to get the project done.
Luckily, the guy I did the recommendation to had done his own due diligence first, on top of my long experience with the guy.
There’s absolutely no way that I can be held responsible for that. Think about liability issues both legal and ethical, if we had to back each of our opinions and experience up with empirical evidence????
Part of running a business is taking a risk. Sometimes it’s a big risk, getting 3rd party recommendations mitigates some of it, but at the end of the day, you gotta grow up, and eat some of the problems to take responsibility for the other successes….
Nothing particularly usable…it was all generic stuff that I couldn’t use. I had him write a few autoresponder messages (actually a lot of them) and a sales letter.
The way they were written though read more like a PLR collection than solid content.
As much as I feel for the guy I don`t think you are liable. You acted in good faith because you were satisfied with the work this copywrited did for you. The buyer should also be aware. Following someones recommendation without doing your own research is always dangerous. The seller should resolve this if he cares about his business at all. He is getting some really bad press here and the story will spread like wildfire. I do however think that the ethical side of this should make for an interesting discussion. We all know that there are lots of people out there recommending any product. I always find these review sites interesting. A lot of them seem to make recommendations on the size of the commisssion and not necessarily the product itself. Is that an honest approach?
as much as I hate losing money ( and as someone trying to make money online I have lost some) It’s everyone’s responsibility to check things out even if someone your trust has recommended the service. And anyone who pays that kind of money up front without first requiring at least a portion of the finished work is just plain naive. I realize that it goes both ways. Vendors providing their services and getting burned by consumers who don’t pay up, but still if my neighbor recommends a contractor who did a good job on their home & I hire them & they don’t do the same quality work on my house I don’t hold my neighbor responsible. As much as we all feel for this man and his lost $1344 that’s just one of the risks we all take doing any kind of business and if you can’t get a refund and it costs too much to pursue legally, you just have to write it off as a business loss.
Eric, I agree with you that you are not responsible for Dragutin’s dilemma. I am really surprised that he paid that sum of money up front (didn’t pass the smell test). If he contacts the police in the area where the copywriter lives, he likely could file a complaint for theft by fraud, or if the communication was by E-mail, wire fraud. Those are felonies and may serve as leverage to get him some restitution.
Do I think that you legally owe Dragutin anything for relying on your recommendation? No way. If you feel at all that you want to soothe his misery, perhaps you might send him one of your E-books or programs gratis as a token of sympathy for his situation, not as an admittance of any wrong-doing on your part.
Hi Eric,
In your own debate with yourself you have clearly established no guilt on either legal or moral grounds, you are left with the grounds for compassion. He still has his problem: a good salesletter. You are not obliged to provide this but with your expertise it would not be a huge task for you to fill this need or if not yourself you could pull in a favour from one of your army of wellwishers and associates. The result of such an action should be,
1) You would be totally vindicated in everyones eyes,
2) You would also feel good about it,
3) The guy would get his money value restored, 4) Hopefully he will make extra money as a result of the excellent copy,
5) He should become a lifelong raving fan of yours
6)We will all smile.
With Best Wishes to you for all your good work
Don
There is only one logical conclusion: FILE A FORMAL COMPLAINT WITH THE POLICE
If he took your money and did not deliver the product, it is clear fraud. File a complaint with the police if possible.
People on the internet think they can get away with anything. I don’t know if there’s much the police may be able to do. But considering that he has a paypal account – he is very trackable and getting behind the bars will teach him a lesson.
I too am a freelancer and as it happens freelancers often get behind on projects or not even be able to finish. But in that case you cannot keep the money and run with it. Esp for a high amount over $1500.
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I once got cheated of a large sum when buying a proxy website too. The guy had artificially inflated the traffic from cheap-paid-traffic and the traffic stopped almost immediately after I bought it.
I complained to paypal but nothing happend. In fact he knew that there was nothing paypal would do – and as soon as he received the complaint – he himself escalated the issue to a dispute and was instantly resolved off the matter.
I now wish I would have filed a complaint against him. If I were in the US, I would have FOR SURE. No doubt about it. It made me mad for days that he got away with it and there’s absolutely nothing I could do.
Well the legal standpoint is clear = Not Liable
The compassion standpoint = You don’t have to …but you could.
Though this would be bad business practice for sure if you did.
Question = Would it hurt you financially to pay this guy and who would know if you did?
Well you’d would just lose one subscriber or listener if you didn’t, is this an issue for you?
Conclusion
Thanks Eric For bringing this problem to our attention. I really didn’t consider that it could happen, as I only recommend stuff that I have tried myself as well. If I used product X and it worked for me, but it didn’t work for my customer. I wouldn’t feel obliged to make a refund either, but if I could I might.
Its a conscience thing Eric and only you can make the call.
Eric you are not legally responsible for the actions of a merchant as an affiliate. But yes the victim feels betrayed by your recommendations. A situation of peace and good morals can only be created by you refunding the amount. If i was in your shoes and have the money requested i would carry the burden of scam and bury it in my past by forwarding the amount to the victim.