Yesterday I received an email from a reader who had hired a copywriter based on my recommendation in late 2009.
Unfortunately, he was not happy with the sales letter he received from the copywriter, and the copywriter allegedly did not complete the work he had been paid to do.
About seven weeks ago, the reader wrote to me about his negative experience with this copywriter. It was the second complaint I had received from readers regarding this copywriter, and I had also received an additional warning from a fellow marketer.
At that point, I pulled my endorsement of the copywriter, and made it clear on my website that I am no longer recommending him.
Now yesterday I received another email from the reader…
Hi Eric,
I hope you are well.
Just to let you know I contacted BBB.org, PayPal and my credit card company.
The business of [redacted] is not registered with BBB.org.
The complaint with PayPal can only be filed within 45 days from the date of payment and that period is exceeded due to [redacted] procrastination and the story telling.
My credit card company is not able to provide the refund of $1344 I paid to [redacted] for the letters he never wrote as there is an involvement from PayPal between them and the vendor.
I acted on your recommendation to choose services of [redacted] as you described him trustworthy and reliable.
From all people and businesses who gave testimonials on his web site only one responded on my enquiry.
The others simply ignored my enquiry and some of the have URL error.
I do not want to lose $1344 USD for nothing as I acted in full honesty and transparency and am asking you to provide me with the full refund.
Hope to hear from you soon.
Kind regards
Dragutin
As you’ve seen, the reader is asking me to compensate him for the payment he made to the copywriter.
I should mention that I do appreciate his polite tone. If he had sent a “flame” I wouldn’t be featuring it here.
I asked him for some additional information, and here is a copy of his communications with the copywriter:
PDF of email correspondence [redacted]
So there are really two questions at stake here…
1) Am I legally liable for the products I endorse or promote as an affiliate?
2) What is the right and ethical thing to do?
The ramifications are very significant, because the answers to these questions affect not only this situation but also…
– Everything I endorse/promote.
– Everyone who endorses anything or promotes something as an affiliate.
This is why the Internet marketing world was in a tizzy last December when the FTC rolled out their new guidelines for endorsements and testimonials.
So let’s answer the first question, as it applies to this situation:
Am I legally liable?
According to the FTC, endorsers may be liable for false or unsubstantiated claims made in an endorsement, or for failure to disclose material connections between the advertiser and endorsers.
Let’s talk about false or unsubstantiated claims.
If I had blindly promoted the product/service without checking it out first (as many affiliates do in this industry, and as I have done in the past on occasion), then I believe I might bear liability if my claims did not match up to the product. Let that be a word of warning to all affiliate marketers: You ARE responsible for what you say/write.
However, in this case I was speaking from first-hand experience. I had actually paid this copywriter $197 to write a sales letter for me, and I felt that the product I received was a good value for the amount that I had paid.
Therefore, my claim was substantiated, and I made the recommendation in good faith that the copywriter would provide similar value for other customers.
Now let’s talk about disclosing material connections.
I initially wrote my recommendation in October of 2009, which was prior to the new FTC guidelines going into effect.
When the new guidelines went into effect on December 1st, I added an “Affiliate & Material Connection Statement” to my website, which I believe satisfies this requirement. If I am shown otherwise, then I might need to get more aggressive about disclosing material/affiliate relationships.
In this particular case, I never did get paid an affiliate commission for the sale in question. So I’m not sure how that affects the material connection from a legal standpoint. Am I still an affiliate if I’m getting scammed too?
OK, so in my opinion I am NOT legally liable for the copywriter’s failure in this situation.
But that brings us to the next question…
What is the right and ethical thing to do?
Although I am someone who believes in absolute truth, and a clear distinction between right and wrong… the realm of ethics can still be grey at times.
I’ve tried to put myself in the customer’s shoes.
If I were him, I probably would have written the same email to me.
I’ve been a victim of scams in the past, so I’m familiar with what he is feeling. It’s one of the worst feelings that the pallet of human emotions can paint. Anger, frustration, regret, self-loathing… all rolled into one. The only way out of it is to go through the grief cycle, and reach a point of acceptance.
From the look of my dear reader’s emails, he’s gone through the denial and anger stages, and has now come around to the bargaining stage. Like I said, I’d be bargaining too.
I see this from two perspectives… justice, and compassion.
From the justice standpoint, I believe it would not be right for me to give him the refund out of my own pocket. Would justice be served by this? No.
Now… IF I had been paid a commission, I do think partial justice could be served if I refunded that commission to the customer. But in this case, there is no commission to speak of.
From a compassion standpoint, I’d love to help out my reader.
If we were talking about a much smaller dollar amount, I probably would have just offered to pay for it (or more likely… I wouldn’t have gotten an email about it in the first place). But $1344 is a decent chunk of change.
We all know the golden rule: do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
If it were the other way around, would I want him to pay for my refund out of his pocket? Yes I would, at this moment in time. But after more time has passed, I would most likely come to the conclusion that justice would not be served by an otherwise innocent affiliate paying me out of his own pocket.
In other words, my sense of justice would eventually trump my desire for recompense. (The two are not mutually exclusive. The victim should be paid back in order for justice to be served, but taking the money from the wrong person is not the solution)
So I do not think it is my moral obligation to pay for the customer’s loss…
But I want to know what YOU think!
I told the customer I would post this on my blog, and take my reader’s opinions into consideration.
I want to know:
What would you do in my situation, and why?
I am absolutely willing to pay a full refund to the customer if the arguments in his favor outweigh the arguments against.
I wish I could just err on the side of compassion, but obviously such a precedent could open me up to a lot of headaches and abuse due to other customers taking advantage of my leniency. If that is the outcome, then I will probably change some things about how I run my business.
Post your comments below. Please do not “trash” me OR the customer or even the copywriter. That’s not the point of this. At the same time I am not necessarily looking for support. I want your honest opinion, even if you are not on my side.
Obviously this is not something that needed to be made public, but I am doing so because I think we can have a good constructive conversation. This is an important topic that affects all Internet marketers. So let us know what you think.
Thanks for your input!
UPDATE: I’ve now posted the conclusion to this saga here:
Legally, you do not appear to be responsible. The recommendation seems to have been made in good faith and was based upon your personal experience. Furthermore, you mentioned you did not receive anything of value in exchange for the referral.
From a perspective or responsibility, however, I understand how you feel. It is commendable that you are questioning the ethics of this unfortunate occurrence. What I believe I would do in this case, is make every effort to assist the buyer in getting the copywriter to take responsibility for his actions. He knows what he did is incorrect and should make amends. The FINANCIAL responsibility is his.
For your part, I would also include a statement in future recommendations clarifying that while your experience with a vendor has been positive, the buyer (caveat emptor!) should perform his own due diligence.
Best of luck to you in resolving this in the best interest of all parties.
You are not liable! First of all, it was just a recommendation. Secondly, it was based on a positive experience with the recommended party. Finally, recommendation translated is it worked for me so it might work for you. We have seen the quality of Toyota take a big hit as of late. How many Toyota drivers have recommended that make? Should they be liable? Eric, it’s not your fault this guy didn’t perform do diligence. My recommendation is a big heaping helping of tough love. He is probably already a better IMer because of this situation. I’m willing to bet this won’t happen to him again.
I do not believe that you should pay any refund.
I agree completely with your careful and well thought out analysis of the legal and ethical issues involved.
I agree that if you had been paid a commission, you would be ethically, but probably not legally, responsible to refund the commission actually received.
In the absence of being paid a commission, your endorsement was by no means a guarantee. We are normally not in a position to guarantee the work of independent businesses.
Therefore, unless we explicitly state a guarantee, our only potential liability would stem from failure to disclose the fact that we are being compensated for the referral.
If the deal had taken place before the new FTC guidelines went into effect, you would still be ethically responsible if you had failed to disclose your financial interest as an affiliate, but not otherwise.
If you refer someone now that the new FTC guidelines are in effect, and you follow the guidelines, you would still not be legally or ethically responsible for the customer’s loss.
If I understood the situation correctly, this customer contracted for the work based on a previous recommendation that you had already retracted at the time. Here, the issue gets a little fuzzy.
On the one hand, it’s not reasonable to assume that someone reads every issue of your newsletter, so customer cannot be considered responsible for his failure to discover that you no longer recommend the copywriter.
That said, your 2009 recommendation never rose to the level of a guarantee, so you are still not responsible for the customer’s loss.
The take-home message is that it is necessary to reveal any potential compensation for a recommendation.
Hi Eric,
First of all THANK YOU for All Your Eric’s Tips.
Regarding your Moral Dilemma:
1) Your Endorsement was Based on your Success with a $197 interchange not a $1344 transaction.
2) Personally if I felt compelled to rectify this situation by compensation. I would limit my my compensation to $197 Plus any Advice to Help the individual get the balance back from the Copywriter who didn’t keep his part of the bargain.
Thanks Again,
Bernie D
Hi Eric,
Here’s something a little different from what most are saying.
Whilst on voluntary missionary service in a third-world country for several years it was recommended that I use an experienced property investor and accountant to oversee our modest house as a rental. The overseeing was done at no cost to us, and we appreciated that.
Both the recommender, and the expert did very well from their own portfolios while we were overseas – but various circumstances that we were unaware of led to the loss of our house whilst in the ‘care’ of the expert.
Should we have sought reparation or compensation from the expert? What about the person who recommended the expert?
No, I can only blame myself for not being more diligent – even whilst on mission service overseas.
However, and here’s my point) if that expert – or the one who recommended him – had helped us out, with even a modest gift (or loan) at the critical time we would be twenty years ahead of where we are now. We would be forever in his debt, not financially, but in our gratitude. (Plus we could have easily paid him back eventually.)
I don’t think you are liable in a legal sense, but what if Dragutin felt that the $1400 was an acceptable risk, based ENTIRELY on your reputation and your recommendation? (In hindsight that would have been foolish, but your reputation IS that you’re a man of integrity! So one should presume that your recommendations were sound too.)
The money may be relatively little to you (perhaps) but could be relatively large to Dragutin (who knows?).
But regardless, there are some principles I try to live by, that I think you also subscribe to, such as:
“Always treat others as you would like them to treat you.”
“Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.”
“And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well.”
If you were to gift the amount to Dragutin… well the ‘real’ outcome might be much more significant than you could ever predict.
Worth considering maybe…
Hi Eric,
You are one of the very, very few persons on the Internet, that I truly respect, admire and trust, for your high moral standard, business ethics and your compassion. And I am for ever one of your subscribers.
I will give two different occasions here, where I’ve personally acted upon your recommendations:
1. I bought one of your OWN products, which is a first class product, but being a newbie, this was way too advanced for my level of understanding IM. I realized that I had made a mistake ordering this.
After explaining my situation to you, a refund was paid promptly and with courtesy. Thank You for that!
2. A business opportunity you recommended, in one of your emails, turned out to be both expensive and a great disappointment.
When I, too late, looked up this company at Warrior.com I found several complains stated there.
And I realized, I should have checked BEFORE ordering and paying the product, (which had to be in advance) The company/vendor did not have a customer refund security agreement with Paypal, but after several emails, and threatening to file official complaints, I did get a full refund.
It never ever crossed my mind, to ask you for a refund for an unsatisfactory product, even if it was on your recommendation, that I trusted and acted upon. It is my responsibility, to be aware of what I am buying, no one else’s. A great lesson learned on my part.
My conclusion:
You are in NO way responsible for this incident, not legally nor morally. You have acted in good faith, recommended upon your personal experience. But you should let [redacted] know, that his behaviour reflects back to you and that is NOT acceptable. The rest is between [redacted] and Dragutin.
If you choose to help Dragutin, it should be with some advice, NOT money out of your own pocket.
But having a compassionate spirit in a harsh world, as you truly have, Eric, let your heart decide.
God Bless!
Helen
Eric,
I been following your series for sometime now. I love most of what you have to say. I find your lessons very useful.
I do however realize your recommendations involve many factors when deciding who/wait to recommended and who/what not to reccomend. When I bought the e-book cover program you reccomended, I spent 3 days looking at what others had to say about it. I realize it was a small investment but I had felt better knowing what product would and would not do.
He is a copywriter but not the only 1. The reader is responsible for hiring him. You didn’t hire him. You are not responible.
He could have been checked out better. A simple google search on his name revealed so much about the guy.
If you want to do something for the reader, offer to write $1384 of sales copy but do not refund the money, as I feel that will lead to more requests for refunds of other things you recommended it. You told us how they have worked for you and how you have used them. However, we are the one respoible for how we spend our money! It is my fault if I get burned.
God Bless,
Nic.
Eric, my first thought was that his lack of due diligence is not your issue. While I might recommend someone for a job, I can’t guarantee they’ll do the job correctly. People change, their priorities change.
I’d hold you responsible for the product you sold but would only follow specific provider recommendations IF I could verify their credibility. Their questionable credibility may cause me to question your judgment but it’s the individuals decision whom they finally hire.
Not doing one’s due diligence can become an expensive lesson of ‘The Cost Of Doing Business’.
On a side note, would he have paid you a thank you bonus had this panned out for him and took off beyond his expectations? Some how I’m doubting it.
I had to take a day to absorb this blog because it is one of those sad examples of buyer beware. Here’s the thing, as web bloggers/domain owners we all post the names and/or businesses that help us. Sometimes for a discount, other times just because we are impressed and we know everyone needs all the publicity they can get. We provide these references of a job well done, the same as we would do if someone did a great job repairing our home.
Trust needs to be earned. We are all careful shoppers, and satisfaction comes from being a careful consumer, even if recommended by a friend (and no offense, but you are not a friend – you are a guy I have never met who gives decent advice and perspectives). At the same time, who pays a contractor so much upfront. Common sense needs to take a step here and you need to negotiate and offer percentage payments as the job progresses. These percentages should be based on how much has been done and how much it would cost you to continue the work elsewhere. Never trust a contractor who charges you for all parts before the job is started, unless the parts and receipt will be sitting in your home.
Let’s assume that I say I love my new pc from x company and you decide to buy 10 for your business or invest money in the stock of x company. Next month it is announced that the pc processor blows up on hot days and costs a fortune to replace. You knew as much as I did at the time but you could have also done a bit more research or diversified your spending until you were satisfied with your own testing experience.
In the end, the Customer IS always right if you want continued business from them, but you were not the vendor here and you really have no integrity to lose. I am not being rude. The fact is you are a blogger, and like so many thousand people out there, you have an opinion. If the doctor said to me “Rudy, you are going to die in a week”, I’d get a second opinion. If I wrote a term paper and only used a reference from Wiki that said “Meteor showers are the major cause of Global Warming.”, people would think I was an idiot. It is the job of a consumer (including a consumer of information) to fully investigate and test, before making a decision.
At best, you could reach out to the vendor and copy the requestor of your effort in doing so. Additionally everyone impacted should reach out to the BBB (Better Business Bureau). Hopefully this could be resolved, but don’t feel responsible if it is not.
To the victim, I offer my sympathy, but I would recommend you go to the police with proof of your transactions. In some states anything over $1000 may be considered Grand Larceny if certain requirements are met. Unfortunately, as hard a lesson as this is, it happens more often than not. Be more careful in the future. I hope you get your money back.
Since you made it clear on your website that I you no longer recommend that copywriter, so it seems to be unfair demand from that guy Dragutin.
You are not responsible and I don’t know why the person in place makes his complaint to you. I believe that everything you do in what kind of business it me be, it’s totally your own responsibility. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Although I know how it feels when someone is cheating you. I’ve been there too. But that doesn’t mean that somebody else has to pay.
I think that your listening to this guy was the only thing you could do.
While I agree with some of your other readers comments that you are not responsible for this copywriter’s performance, you probably should have initiated a warning that you are not responsible for the copywriter’s work, opinion and/or performance. Also, unless you have had recent communication with the copywriter, I would try to convince him to maybe give back some money. If you cannot reach the copywriter, then I would post a negative comment on your website and/or the bbb.org website.
Dear Eric, After reading the whole blog, and the first couple of comments, I rather agree with Dave, that legally you have no responsibility to this woebegone man, who really should have checked with the BBB.com before paying for the services of someone he didn’t know, no matter who suggested he gave good or timely service for his pay. I would feel just a bad for this person as you obviousely do. He was treated very unfairly all around by everyone BUT, YOU! You are very correct about setting a bad precedent for others if you pay him back anything. As hard as it may sound, we all have to take some personal responsibility for each of our decisions, and actions. Sometimes it may feel better to point a finger at someone else and say it’s all their fault! But, we both know that just isn’t always so! Sometimes the “Buck has to Stop Here, with ourselves” Several of our Presidents said this , but only one actually meant it. In this age of personal responsibility, that is how we all must think of our own decisions, The Buck Stops with Us! That is the predicament that man unfortunately finds himself in. He sees himself as being between a rock and two hard places. so you look like the easiest one to get something out of. I’m very sorry for the man and the predicament he finds himself in. But, you do not owe him anything. You’ve certainly done all you could to be honest and ethical. Don’t blame yourself for what he did to himself.
hi eric
i believe your endorsement of the copywriter was correct because you used his services and received a fair product for the money. it is unfortunate that this person got scammed from the copy writer,however, it falls on his shoulders if he fully prepaid before delivery of the product. i do not believe you are the responsible party for this transaction gone bad it is a problem between the copywriter and the customer. i would definately pull my endorsement immediately from said copywriter if that is how he is going to run his business. caveat emptor- let the buyer beware. if i were the person who got scammed i would not expect a refund from a party that endorsed them,but i would immediately contact the endorser and let him/her know about the problems encountered. if i were the endorser i would try to help out the person scammed but i do not believe that i should refund out of my own pocket,especially since there was no commission involved. it is a very bad situation to be in, we have all probably been there at least once in our life. you just have to pick up the pieces and go on with life.
Looks like you have your answer. We all get ripped off from time to time and we can’t blame anyone but the party directly involved. I for one wish that more marketers had the transparence that you are showing.
Eric,
Your reader should have done his own due diligence before hiring the copyrighter. Your recommendation should have only served as the impetus for him to begin investigating the copyrighter. That was his failure, and you can not be held accountable for that.
As for the ethical thing to do – you are right in your assessment; had you received a commission, it would be ethical to return that commission to the customer. In addition, you have already done the right thing and removed your endorsement of this copyrighter.
If you still feel somehow responsible for this, you could attempt to call in a favor and ask another copyrighter friend of yours to do the work pro bono – but that’s a big favor, and in my opinion, not necessary.
From reading the emails, this entire project was handled in a very unprofessional manner – even from the customer’s side. There were plenty of chances for the customer to stop this… and I would NEVER pay that sort of money up front. There are plenty of escrow services to utilize for that.
Bottom line – you’re in the clear in my book!
Hi Eric,
Of course, you aren’t liable for this Dragotin’s unhappy situation.You mustn’t refund him for someone else’s product.
You aren’t part of their transaction (Dragotin and [redacted]).You only made a recommendation on a product that you have suiccessfully used before.You don’t know the transaction between the two guys.Just because you recommended something you should not be held liable.
In conclusion,you are not legally liable to refund Dragotin or another your suibscriber if they didn’t purchased any yours product.
Also you are not morally bound to pay.
Dragotin have to complain to his copyriter.
Now I’m afraid you’ll delay or abandon your lessons to us.
For example I already created and uploaded my first squeeze page and I want to get traffic to my squeeze page.Therefore I do am waiting your lessons about getting traffic.
So sorry you are dealing with this
Now I know why I just use my credit card. There are risks there with letting out that info but they have always refunded me when the product supplier did not give me what I paid for. Lesson learned!
Split it with him you win and he wins good public relations
This is a very touchy situation. Hows this one. My brother-in-law is a car dealer and a very good one. I have bought used cars from him a couple times for me and my daughters. However I usually stay away from recommending him because he is family. But my best friend was looking for a car asked if I new an honest car dealer. Reluctantly after numerous requests I recommended my brother-in-laws dealership. Well you can guess what happened. After a few months the used car he bought ( he didn’t buy an extended warranty) started to have real expensive problems. The heat and ridicule I received from him & my brother-in-law was to much. I would suggest that recommending anyone is really a dangerous thing. But in your case I don’t think your at fault or liable he should have checked him out before paying that kind of money up front. He’s not much of a businessman to make that business 101 mistake.
Not liable. Don’t pay.
Eric you are not responsible to refund the money. But if you have some in the attic, send it my way. Your testimonial was based on your personal experience.
Eric, you are not liable because the endorsement was given based on the quality of the services you had received from the copywriter…which at the time of your relationship were ok by all commercial standards. Moreover you were not receiving any commision as a result of the endorsement…you were only going the extra mile giving guidance to somebody who could benefit from your experience on outsourcing those tasks at which we are not experts…In spite all the compassion and understanding That one can have for the situation of the customer there is not justice if you pay for something that at the end is his responsability and he should learn that some risk are inherent to making money as internet marketers…The sooner we learn the lesson the better…
Celebrities give testimonials all the time.
Do you chase after them for a refund if the product did not work for you.?
Eric, you are not responsible. You have not promoted this copywriter blindly but instead with your first hand experience where you received a good value for the money you paid. You have made the recommendation in good faith that the copywriter would provide similar value for other customers. However, no one have control of what service this copywriter or any other affiliate will provide to others costumers. Therefore, before using any services the idea is to do our own DD before and try negotiate to pay in instalments as the job is progressing. I fill sorry for the person in loss because I have been victim in many scams online and off line in the past and I know what is like. There is no one to blem not even our self we learn the lesson and need to move forward with life with the knowledge not to do the same mistake again.
Eric, I have folowed your blogs because of your stated faith and beliefs. I believe you to be honest in what you say and do. You did not make a recomendation based on present or future financial gain and everyone knows that. Both of these individals are at fault, one for bad business practice, the other for failure to communcate and deliver the product as expected by the customer.
Bill Richardson wrote “From reading the emails, this entire project was handled in a very unprofessional manner – even from the customer’s side. There were plenty of chances for the customer to stop this… and I would NEVER pay that sort of money up front. There are plenty of escrow services to utilize for that.”
All of us have made decisions that effected our lives in various ways. We must learn from them, correct the problem, and then move on.
Do you need our opinion on this, NO. You have already done the right ting.
Eric,
In my opinion You are not legally or morally responsible to that person to refund his money. You had a good experience with the copywriter and gave a recommendation based on your experience.
The reader should have done some research and sought out additional recommendations and reviews by others about the services offered, before making a decision to contact the service provider and making a contract for services.
Eric, I’m not even going to bother to read your ‘defense’ or the other comments in this post. You owe the customer nothing. We are all ultimately responsible for your actions and need to carry out due dilligence. There are so many resources on the internet to vet a company or individuals its not funny. When Oprah recommends a book, its up to you to decide on whether or not you take her up on the recommendation. Remember James Frey? Did Oprah refund all those people who bought his book which turned out to be a lie??
(I apologize if someone may have mentioned this already). Dude, your conscience should be clear. You do a great job!
Eric, I’m not even going to bother to read your ‘defense’ or the other comments in this post. You owe the customer nothing. We are all ultimately responsible for OUR actions and need to carry out due dilligence. There are so many resources on the internet to vet a company or individuals its not funny. When Oprah recommends a book, its up to you to decide on whether or not you take her up on the recommendation. Remember James Frey? Did Oprah refund all those people who bought his book which turned out to be a lie??
(I apologize if someone may have mentioned this already). Dude, your conscience should be clear. You do a great job!
If I am going to pay that amount of money, I will consult more than one person for references. You gave your opinion from your experience. That should not have been enough. If at least 3 people said the same thing, then maybe. I like to think that I would do more research. In the end, it would be my choice, not yours.
No, I don’t think you are responsible for his problems.
That’s also what I wanted to say to Eric, but I couldn’t do it as concisely and clearly as Chris just did. Thanks Chris for helping out.
Eric, I agree with most of your subscribers. You do not owe anyone anything when you recommend anything. You are not responsible for that supplier or clients morals and business conduct.
You do a great job and very honest and up front about your business and who you are.
Keep up the great work.
Hi Eric.
It was not your false. I believe you didn’t push your reader to buy the product so I think it’s not your responsible to refund but if you do that, you do such a good thing & your readers will trust you more & happy to have business with you. Only few good people willing to do that and you are one of them.
God bless you and yours.
Thanks
thanks
Eric,
Law can be a funny thing, good or bad, but I think you should have checked out the guy further before recommending him, because you sent me an email about a product you claimed worked for you and I bought into into it for $497. you know the traffic business one, well anyway many complaints on it and I will never do business with brett ever again, and I have filed a complaint with the crime complaint center on these people, and I was disapointed in the site with testimonies that are not mine and all generated by the developers.needless to say, I don’t think you should be responsible for the refund, he needs to turn it over to the crime complaint center.
I don’t believe marketers anymore, I check them out thouroughly now because I have been ripped off where I hired a guy to so a website years ago and he took half the payment and I never got the site or my money back, and paypal could not get my money back, even though they agreed he ripped me off.
Good luck in this situation, and go by what you heart tells you.
Can you make an effort to help him to earn that amount?
No in my opinion you are not liable. In good faith (is intangible commodity). Also, you were satisfied with his writeup. No 2 people’s perspective are the same.What I mean here is that you liked his work, and the gentleman in question was not happy with his work..that’s all
Eric,
I have been studying internet marketing now for about two years. I have found that most internet marketers are basic honest about what they say to customers. But their are some that would just about do or say anything to get your money. It is truly reprehensible what some of these marketers do to others. But I believe that you have been honest in your recommending this person, but the person does not take the same moral ground that you do, therefore, I really do not think that you own the person anything. I really feel bad for this person, because I have been were he is, lucky, not for as much, but been there and done that. But it takes courage to be honest with people and let your customers decide that if you pay or not. I can say that I have great respect for what you are doing. Take care and enjoy and be prosperous…
Eric,
Mr. Dragutin (and all of your subscribers) have received far more than $1344.00 value for all that you have taught and made available through this series.
It is a shame that he is out of pocket now – quite an expensive lesson to learn, yet still something that he may claim as a business loss so he may recoup part of it.
If his business had increased 20% as a result of him using a service/tool recommended by you would he then feel obligated to pass part of that increase on to you?
Your dilemma, as I see it is that if you pay the money to him out of your empathy for his setback you fear setting a precedent that will open yourself and many others to a flood of similar ‘frivolous’ requests. Yet we must,all of us, take our lives on a case by case basis. What you decide to do here may or may not impact my business in the future, but that will be my choice to make at the time.
What options are available to you to create a win/win situation here? What will feel right in your heart? No matter what any of us think or say it is your face reflected back from your mirror. Your own honor is what matters most.
Perhaps you could cover this in a future lesson — ways that we might check out a potential resource before investing and perhaps guidelines about how much to invest and professional procedures (Is is standard to pay so much up front? What is considered timely delivery? etc)
True most of your subscribers are new to Internet Marketing and most of us take your recommendations without question — this can be a wake up call for us!
My (spiritual) guru tells me “check everything out to your own satisfaction — even what I tell you. If it works for you use it, if it doesn’t work have the wit to let go of it and find something else.”
So far any of your recommendations I have followed have paid off exactly as advertised but I still will not invest money I cannot afford to lose.
God Bless you in resolving this dilemma.
Karen Elizabeth
If Eric pays this person then the next person that has a problem is he suppose to pay them as well? I mean come on now! Why did this person wait 45 days anyway before saying anything? If was paying that much money for something I sure wouldn’t be wait 45 days to complain….. Also, how do you know this person isn’t just pulling a fast one????
Dear Eric,
Legally you are not responsible, however many will no longer accept any product or person you recommend as a solid source. They will see all training that pushes a product as a means to get affiliate commissions. If they decide to purchase a product they will go around the affiliate link or purchase a competing product. Once a product is mentioned a google search will identify a home page and many marketers are now producing their own products to get around that. You promised this a guy a product and instead of refunding him the money complete the transaction, give him a finished product hopefully at a lower cost than the refund and leave it at that.
Eric,
First of all, I would like to explain that I love your videos. I have l earned a lot from you. I am a big fan of yours. You have a lot of visible and seem to be very knowledgeable and know what you are doing. I also am aware and I think most of your subscribers might be aware that you are a Christian which in my opinion gives you even more credibility. So when someone reads a recommendation from you about someone being reliable, we take it to heart. From what I understood, he hired this copywriter before the retraction was made, so in my opinion I really think it would only fair for you to give him his money back because he hired him solely on your recommendation before the retraction was made so he did this before he had any knowledge of his not being reliable. I think it was not intentional on your part and it was an honest mistake but e is still out the money on your recommendation.
Hi Eric,
I say that in no way are you responsible to pay a refund. It is up to each person to do their own due diligence. He should not have paid the money up front – maybe a percentage – but not that much without receiving value for money. Logic says you start off with a small project and see if the work meets your standards. Everyone is different, so what suited you may not have suited this person. You are not responsible for another person’s poor business practice…nor for a change in the conduct of the copywriter.
Eric,
There may be room for a win win situation here. You offer copywriting services? Can’t you create or get access to someone who can create a sales letter for this guy? And if not, find someone willing to do it and use it as a great sales tool. As you’ve mentioned, you don’t owe money and it wouldn’t solve the problem. But I would imagine you could help the guy create a great sales letter. It would cost you some time, but not cash out of your pocket. That way, you’re a super ethical compassionate hero, which is great marketing for you and your businesses, and the guy who was wronged becomes an ally, raving about how honest and ethical you are, and how you took care of him, which wouldn’t just be hype, but truth, the best type of marketing there is.
I wish the internet service business would allow for “try before you buy”, but that is not always the case.
As with most of us, we have used vendors at someone’s recommendation that did not turn out very well. Bue there is some requirement for personal responsibility, not everyone perceives information the same.
You should always find out if there is some sort of quarantee given on their site before you buy. If there isn’t one, no matter who made the recommendation, it is “let the buyer beware”
Eric, I don’t wish to blast Dragutin, but he made a foolish mistake. I in the past have come across dishonest people on the web (surprised!). I have waited till day 58 and then disputed a charge from a dishonest marketer. I hope Dragutin has learned something from this unfortunate event. If Dragutin was unhappy with the service he received he should have stopped the payment as soon as he realized that he was getting scammed.
Let the buyer beware.
Eric,
I do not think you are liable to give a refund in this case, because you did not earn any commissions. I am curious…You have been in business for awhile…is this the first time someone has complained and asked you for compensation? If so, then you should look at this as an unfortunate situation…you recommended in good faith. It is a tuff one though, that I can see is emotional for you. I used to sell on ebay, & no matter how many full disclosures I listed, inevitable I would find that 1 person who would complain…and yes, that would bother me and I felt obligated for some type of compensation. I think this is a good learning experience for all of us & am glad that you have presented it to us. I look forward to your emails & think a lot of people have benefited from you advice!
I guess bottom line though, only you can decide what ultimately to do and hope all ends well.
Kathleen
Eric,
First of all, I am a fan of yours. With that said,you paid him $197.00 to write a sales letter? Red flag!!!
Anyone who would write a sales letter that cheaply must be crazy and should be avoided.
I’m a copywriter and blogger. Story time. You knew it was coming 🙂
After doing the AWAI thing (google it folks) I hired a copywriting coach on the recommendation of another copywriter who had taken his course. This coach is highly recommended and has testamonials from some heavy IM’s and master copywriters.
I wonder if they know he is a liar and scammer? After paying him more than $6,000 for the course, he finished it up and then disappeared. During the course, he answered emails when he felt like it. He did not live up to three parts of the contract. For example, he was unware that I kept in close contact with another student. When that student asked for our recordings of all the calls, he told him that all the recordings were sent out directly after the call and it was his fault if he didn’t recieve them due to a faulty computer/email system. Total B.S. Not one call was ever sent out and we never got the 10 plus calls that we did.
He had asked me just prior to the end of the course, to do a testamonial for him. After I called him on not living up to the contract and ignoring a number of emails, he kept the testamonial and changed my last name.
That is why I tell clients that testamonials are not your best source of determining a good copywriter or IM. Look at the actual work they have done. In the beginning when I thought testamonials were necessary, I would ask a client and they would tell me to write it myself and sign their name. I no longer use testamonials. I am willing to bet that a lot of the testamonials on my former coachs site are written by him.
I am an affiliate and when I promote products, I tell people, make sure you can get a refund and I either use the product myself or have knowledge that it is good. However this does not mean it is going to work for everyone. Buyer beware.
You do not owe him anything. You acted in good faith and he is out some money. He hired the copywriter and should have a contract which he can follow up with Paypal, the BBB and/or small claims court. Personally if I was him, I would just bury it and move on.
Regards,
James
p.s. Please no emails about spelling/grammer, I hammered this out of the top of my head and no I did not spellcheck it.:)
Hi Eric,
I haven’t read all of the comments only first few (5 or so) But I don’t think you are responible, to me you made the recomendation in good faith, you thought he was as good as his word but something happened.
Hugh
Dear Eric,
I had to admit I did not read all those comments/opinion made by our colleague. Reading all those comment just distort my thinking of GOOD & BAD. I mean before I read those messages coming from our friends out there, I had already this thing in my mind. Yes, I do agree if this is only a small amount of money, I would surely pay that guy but… but doing this things will only make others to be Fault Finder rather than Solution Finder. Your Fault is Not My Fault, so does Her Fault is Not their Fault. Take a look at this instances Eric. Sometimes during our eating session we sometimes bite our lips. Question is who is to blame for this matter? The person doing the eating? Or the teeth that do the biting? I am not well versed in English but I know somehow you get my point. We can only be held liable if we know from our heart that the person we recommend to others to do his/her job is not capable or fake. My Mistake is Not Eric Mistake or Fault nor my mistake is the readers mistake also. Anyway this kind of situation gives us more lesson to learned. We need to be more careful the next time we deal with people because real people are more harder to please than a fake one. Good day to all of our friends out there.
Joselito U. Mendoza
Cauayan City, Philippines
Wow Jason thats a poor analogy if I ever saw one. Comparing an IM product to a college education is rediculous.
First off I’ve never seen any college promotion pamphlet or heard any college recruiter claiming you’ll get rich or even a good paying job. They are smarter than that they do however use statistics like “on the average college graduates earn XX amount more than high school graduates.”
But IM sales pages are another whole ball of wax. You don’t have to step one foot out on the Internet to find a dozen or more claiming you’ll make riches overnight, in the next hour even.
Comparing a college promo pamphlet or recruiters claims to the claims of an IM product sales letter is like they say “comparing apples to oranges.”
Hi Eric,
Thank you Eric, this email has now alerted me to this copywriter. Unfortunately, your posting on your website, as you mentioned in your situation with this unhappy member, would not have alerted me, as I do not go to it very often. I communicate with your business via your lessons. I will not be taking the risk of using this copywriter. Thanks for the heads up!
While I appreciate you using this business blog to hold an open forum, as it is the current, social marketing trend, I wonder, is it truly the best way to solve your problem?
I am having difficulty understanding the true situation, it’s underlying causes, and the compelling reasons of each party in this dispute.
Can you help me understand, so that I can try to help you Eric, as you have helped me so much. Is this really the best place to solve this problem?
You’re a smart guy Eric. You have chosen to use this brillant, business model and I assume you are making a lot of money from educating your audience and endorsing products and services,that help them, and hopefully make you a lot of money(as you should as you provide value) while building trust with your customers(as they travel down the marketing funnel)right? There are risks involved with this approach (the cost of doing business)rightly or wrongly.
Doesn’t it really boil down to your relationship with your member in question,who wants a refund, on a service provider you endorsed by mistake?
We all make mistakes,and people change, don’t beat yourself up about that.
This is a complex situation. There is NO EASY ANSWER where BOTH people in this negotiation EASILY win.
BUT BOTH PEOPLE CAN WIN, if you both work collaboratively, to get to a solution, to a problem, you both now have.
What do you have that he would want, that will truly help him with his business, and help you regain trust with him, and some of your audience,as you have exposed other members to this situation and people are watching to see what you decide by opening this situation to us.
Your decision will effect your brand either way. How can you protect and maybe, enhance, your brand while protecting yourself from further problems with him and others in the future? What would help him and not cost you anything?
What are both parties willing to give up and not give up, in this negotiation? How will this positively or negatively effect your brand? Could you both end up somewhere in the middle with a compromise?
Isn’t that where most negotiations that build trusting relationships, end up?
What happens to you if you lose this customer or if you lose customers from it? What is the long-term value of your member, and of your audience you may lose, as some people are clearly upset? Is this really worth your time? Only, you can answer this for sure.
In the end it is your business. You will need to calculate your return on invested time.
The truth may not always be easy, but it is always the right answer, whatever this may be in this case.
Can we truly help you both find that?
I hope I helped you a little.
You will always have my endorsement for what you have done for me regardless of your decision here.
Tom
PS. sorry for the long length is of this comment and any typos, I am having trouble with my keyboard.