Yesterday I received an email from a reader who had hired a copywriter based on my recommendation in late 2009.
Unfortunately, he was not happy with the sales letter he received from the copywriter, and the copywriter allegedly did not complete the work he had been paid to do.
About seven weeks ago, the reader wrote to me about his negative experience with this copywriter. It was the second complaint I had received from readers regarding this copywriter, and I had also received an additional warning from a fellow marketer.
At that point, I pulled my endorsement of the copywriter, and made it clear on my website that I am no longer recommending him.
Now yesterday I received another email from the reader…
Hi Eric,
I hope you are well.
Just to let you know I contacted BBB.org, PayPal and my credit card company.
The business of [redacted] is not registered with BBB.org.
The complaint with PayPal can only be filed within 45 days from the date of payment and that period is exceeded due to [redacted] procrastination and the story telling.
My credit card company is not able to provide the refund of $1344 I paid to [redacted] for the letters he never wrote as there is an involvement from PayPal between them and the vendor.
I acted on your recommendation to choose services of [redacted] as you described him trustworthy and reliable.
From all people and businesses who gave testimonials on his web site only one responded on my enquiry.
The others simply ignored my enquiry and some of the have URL error.
I do not want to lose $1344 USD for nothing as I acted in full honesty and transparency and am asking you to provide me with the full refund.
Hope to hear from you soon.
Kind regards
Dragutin
As you’ve seen, the reader is asking me to compensate him for the payment he made to the copywriter.
I should mention that I do appreciate his polite tone. If he had sent a “flame” I wouldn’t be featuring it here.
I asked him for some additional information, and here is a copy of his communications with the copywriter:
PDF of email correspondence [redacted]
So there are really two questions at stake here…
1) Am I legally liable for the products I endorse or promote as an affiliate?
2) What is the right and ethical thing to do?
The ramifications are very significant, because the answers to these questions affect not only this situation but also…
– Everything I endorse/promote.
– Everyone who endorses anything or promotes something as an affiliate.
This is why the Internet marketing world was in a tizzy last December when the FTC rolled out their new guidelines for endorsements and testimonials.
So let’s answer the first question, as it applies to this situation:
Am I legally liable?
According to the FTC, endorsers may be liable for false or unsubstantiated claims made in an endorsement, or for failure to disclose material connections between the advertiser and endorsers.
Let’s talk about false or unsubstantiated claims.
If I had blindly promoted the product/service without checking it out first (as many affiliates do in this industry, and as I have done in the past on occasion), then I believe I might bear liability if my claims did not match up to the product. Let that be a word of warning to all affiliate marketers: You ARE responsible for what you say/write.
However, in this case I was speaking from first-hand experience. I had actually paid this copywriter $197 to write a sales letter for me, and I felt that the product I received was a good value for the amount that I had paid.
Therefore, my claim was substantiated, and I made the recommendation in good faith that the copywriter would provide similar value for other customers.
Now let’s talk about disclosing material connections.
I initially wrote my recommendation in October of 2009, which was prior to the new FTC guidelines going into effect.
When the new guidelines went into effect on December 1st, I added an “Affiliate & Material Connection Statement” to my website, which I believe satisfies this requirement. If I am shown otherwise, then I might need to get more aggressive about disclosing material/affiliate relationships.
In this particular case, I never did get paid an affiliate commission for the sale in question. So I’m not sure how that affects the material connection from a legal standpoint. Am I still an affiliate if I’m getting scammed too?
OK, so in my opinion I am NOT legally liable for the copywriter’s failure in this situation.
But that brings us to the next question…
What is the right and ethical thing to do?
Although I am someone who believes in absolute truth, and a clear distinction between right and wrong… the realm of ethics can still be grey at times.
I’ve tried to put myself in the customer’s shoes.
If I were him, I probably would have written the same email to me.
I’ve been a victim of scams in the past, so I’m familiar with what he is feeling. It’s one of the worst feelings that the pallet of human emotions can paint. Anger, frustration, regret, self-loathing… all rolled into one. The only way out of it is to go through the grief cycle, and reach a point of acceptance.
From the look of my dear reader’s emails, he’s gone through the denial and anger stages, and has now come around to the bargaining stage. Like I said, I’d be bargaining too.
I see this from two perspectives… justice, and compassion.
From the justice standpoint, I believe it would not be right for me to give him the refund out of my own pocket. Would justice be served by this? No.
Now… IF I had been paid a commission, I do think partial justice could be served if I refunded that commission to the customer. But in this case, there is no commission to speak of.
From a compassion standpoint, I’d love to help out my reader.
If we were talking about a much smaller dollar amount, I probably would have just offered to pay for it (or more likely… I wouldn’t have gotten an email about it in the first place). But $1344 is a decent chunk of change.
We all know the golden rule: do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
If it were the other way around, would I want him to pay for my refund out of his pocket? Yes I would, at this moment in time. But after more time has passed, I would most likely come to the conclusion that justice would not be served by an otherwise innocent affiliate paying me out of his own pocket.
In other words, my sense of justice would eventually trump my desire for recompense. (The two are not mutually exclusive. The victim should be paid back in order for justice to be served, but taking the money from the wrong person is not the solution)
So I do not think it is my moral obligation to pay for the customer’s loss…
But I want to know what YOU think!
I told the customer I would post this on my blog, and take my reader’s opinions into consideration.
I want to know:
What would you do in my situation, and why?
I am absolutely willing to pay a full refund to the customer if the arguments in his favor outweigh the arguments against.
I wish I could just err on the side of compassion, but obviously such a precedent could open me up to a lot of headaches and abuse due to other customers taking advantage of my leniency. If that is the outcome, then I will probably change some things about how I run my business.
Post your comments below. Please do not “trash” me OR the customer or even the copywriter. That’s not the point of this. At the same time I am not necessarily looking for support. I want your honest opinion, even if you are not on my side.
Obviously this is not something that needed to be made public, but I am doing so because I think we can have a good constructive conversation. This is an important topic that affects all Internet marketers. So let us know what you think.
Thanks for your input!
UPDATE: I’ve now posted the conclusion to this saga here:
Just realized I wasn’t super-clear :
He sent me some work – which was not up to par – I asked him to edit some things and send them back, which never happened – so no, I didn’t in effect receive anything.
Hi Eric, this copy writer needs to be brought to book,Mr Dragutin would be better to spend time doing this as many of us have had to do with bad payers or con men.iTS harsh but a business that has no experience of this is rare,it is a lesson in business for mr Dragutin, you cant blindly trust,you must do your homework, I feel sorry for mr Dragutin but there are always bad apples,we all get caught from time to time.I think you are not the person who should pay,Track him down.
If you made a contractual agreement with the copywriter – you can sue him, but at the same time you are responsible to the buyer. So if you are to be trusted in the future you may want to stipulate your recommendations with that old adage ‘buyer beware’.
I do not think you are responsible. I understand the customer paid a lot of money and no one likes to get ripped off. However, it can happen to the best of us and buyer beware. There could be many factors that you had absolutely no control over. As you say, when you made the recommendation you did so on actual experience and did not get compensated for making such a recommendation.
If I hire a caterer who does a good job for me and I recommend this caterer to a friend who is not happy at all, can she hold me legally or morally responsible? I can apologize and promise to never recommend this person again, but should i pay for her “ruined” dinner?
Hi Eric,
I agree 100% with what Hilary says.
At least one of your other readers suggested that he can write off the expense against tax.
I suggest that he write off the experience as a life experience and move on.
I suggest that he write a formal postal registered letter to this copywriter as well.
I suggest that he write a postal formal letter to his credit card company and another postal formal letter to Paypal. No need for them to know that the other organisation is also getting a letter. They may do something.
Each of the letters needs to say clearly what will resolve the issue for him using as few words as possible.
I would suggest that after the letters are posted, that he move on to his next project.
I recall that in one of your early lessons, you advise people not to spend money until a few things are ironed out.
Kind Regards,
David
Short answer: The buyer is responsible.
Wow, there are already over 900 comments to this. I wonder if you have time to read it all? If you do, here is my argument: If people are going into this business to begin with they must take responsibility. Ads are ads, never trust any of it. It’s like a gamble, one should only bet what one is prepared to lose. You were not stating that he was 100% trustworthy, just that your experience was good!
Even if you don’t pay this person, your reputation won’t take a hit, because the way you talk and present your affairs shows integrity.
I see this claim as pure greed on behalf of the person who sent you this email.
If the letter had been great and he had earned a million from it, would he have shared some of that with you?
Of course not, i feel for the guy and 1300 is a huge chunk of cash. But if he has contacted the other people on the sales letter it is clear he didnt buy it on your recommendation alone.
The net is a scary place at times, especially when you are spending large amounts of money.
Maybe some good copywriter will step in and offer to help. But I don’t think you should have to pay the guy for something you made nothing on and had no direct responsibility for.
Eric
I have been in Commercial Real Estate as a Broker and Developer for 26 years and about a year ago I got into internet marketing.
As a Real Estate Broker in Texas we have to follow a strict set of ethics and are tested on the content.
You tested this man’s product and found it OK. On that basis you made an endorsement. I know when I send out an email for a property for sale I have since 1986 put a disclaimer on the email.
In my opinion I don’t think you are liable to refund the money as other posts have said you were not a party to the transaction. Ethically I don’t think you are liable either as you made the recommendation on the basis that you purchased his services and found his services to be adequate.
Hey, Eric,
No, you are not legally responsible for this unfortunate situation.
No, you are not morally responsible for giving anyone a refund because of this unfortunate situation.
Based on what you said (and I have no reason to believe otherwise), you made your recommendation in good faith, based on a good experience. Frankly, I wonder if this [redacted] person initially approached you because he had some idea of who you were and how many follow your advice–then made it his business to do well by you in the hope of getting exactly the recommendation that you gave. It seems like he may have set this whole scam up, starting with using you. No, that may not be the case; there may be a completely different reason why he seems to have done poorly by so many people…but I do wonder.
That said–and though I certainly understand the pain of being ripped off via the internet–you really do not owe it to Dragutin to cover his loss. [redacted] owes him that refund, and no one else. And you owe [redacted] (assuming that’s even his name) the honor of having his name and duplicity spread as far and wide through the IM world as is possible, so that his ability to steal from others is at least curtailed.
Thanks, though, Eric, for your willingness to put this question before your audience. THAT’S what I call dealing in good faith!
Hello Eric!
These kinds of things happen ALL of the time, as you know… You may or may not feel responsible for the actions of the copywriter, but that is part of this whole “Internet Thing.”
You cannot be responsible for the Copywriter’s misdeeds, however, you may have lost a loyal customer, because of this incident.
The customer is extremely angry, right now, and I would be too. Losing over $1000.00 is a BIG deal to some of us, who are trying to make this “Internet Thing” work… The customer should seek redress from someone other than you…
Ethically speaking, you did remove your endorsement of the copywriter, but what can you do? Things like this do happen, which is why I do NOT provide endorsements for anyone whom I don’t know, or for something that I have not personally used, recently…
With all that said, I have a question for you, that I have not had answered, yet. I sent it to you 3 different times, but I got no response… You asked for my opinion/assessment for your situation, now I would like a response to the email I sent you several times…
*******************************
Here’s the email I sent to you.
*******************************
Hello Eric!
I’ve been following your lessons for a while now, and I really think that you’re
one of the few “knowledgeable good-guys” on the Internet, today.
As a matter of fact, I even purchased the “Push Button System” and
the “Ecover Engine Software” programs from you.
The Ecover program is waaaaaaaay Kool, and extremely easy to use. I have created so
many Ecovers, that I can’t count them. I’ve had a ball creating and storing them,
so that they would be available to use them, when I got ready to sell my products.
Well…
I’m running into a little difficulty when I place the Ecovers on the html pages, that I
hope you can help me with.
Here’s the problem:
I create the images on a 400×400 (pxl) square, just as you explain in the Video tutorial,
then I select, make and save the “jpeg” Ecovers. Once I insert the images into an html page or just paste them into a MS Word document, they ALWAYS have a “Black Frame” or “Black Outline” on them.
Could you explain why that’s happening and how I can get rid of that “Black Framed” area?
I would really appreciate your help.
Thanks
Michael
P.S. Your Video Lessons are PRICELESS!!!
Hello Eric,
You pose an interesting situation; I have been a member of Erics Tips since the beginning. The way you approached giving away valuable information put you head and shoulders above the crowd and made you a trustworthy resource in my opinion. Of course I have never met you and have no idea how truly trustworthy you are. However, using my intuition I have purchased many products and services you have recommended. Few have worked out, but that has more to do with me than with you, sometimes the product or service just was not what I thought it was. I feel we each must take responsibility for our own actions, or inaction. I try to do due diligence before spending my money, but there is so much misinformation online that it is next to impossible to know what you’re getting. The bottom line is that I do trust you and what you endorse, but would never consider asking you to solve my problems. You don’t hold a gun to anyone’s head and tell them to “buy or else!”
Someone earlier in the postings suggested that perhaps you could write his copy for him. That may be an answer, but if you are compelled to DO SOMETHING to compensate this customer, might I suggest that you “edit” what has already been written, or if nothing has been written, you could look at Mr. Dragutin’s ideas and consult with him on what will or will not work on his site. How could he ask for more from you?
And of course I do not believe you are liable for the $1400. This whole situation smacks of needing more controls over selling and buying online. Sometimes we must be protected from OURSELVES!
Hi Michael
There is not an outline on the jpg file, so it must be in your HTML formatting.
If it’s in a Word doc, you would need to right click the image and go into the image settings and turn the border off. In HTML, make sure there is border=”0″, and make sure there’s not one being set by a CSS file either.
In the future, please use the helpdesk, as I do not personally offer support via email and I have not seen any of your emails. With the helpdesk it is trackable, so you can always make sure we see your ticket and you can always see our response.
Portuguese to English from Google translate, it says:
Well, I think the client should understand with whom he negotiated, the fact you have it recommended does not make you responsible for the failure of negotiation, I think you should be exmido any liability, stay calm justice will prevail, thanks for prdir my opinion.
i’m a newbie and a new subscriber, have lost a substantial amount on the internet due to my ignorance, i’ve wised up alot more, in my opinion i don’t believe you are responsible for any refund because of a recommendation.Internet Marketing to me is a world wide web of recommendation for goods and services.One needs to ‘Look before the Leap’.
Dear Eric,
Sorry, but I have to go against the grain on this one. “But for your recommendation” there would have been no business between the copywriter and your customer. Your recommendation was the causal factor, regardless of compensation, or lack thereof. A little background on me is in order here. Months ago I terminated all contact from internet marketers, except you. You are the only one who ever reaches my inbox any more. The simple reason is trust. I have always trusted and respected you and never once have had the feeling that you were trying to put your hand in my pocket. In business that is known as “good will”. Now, through the actions of another, it is your good will on the line. I can’t help but wonder at all these comments that say you should not pay when it was not their loss at your recommendation. Would they all still feel the same way ? I think not. Let your conscience be your guide. Is there a dollar amount affixed to your reputation ? I don’t think there is, I’ve been letting you into my inbox for a long time. It’s not about a legal obligation at this point. It’s about doing the right thing. I trust you will make the right decision, regardless of what your readers think or say. Another option for your consideration is this: ask the copywriter if he would prefer for you to ask all your affiliates, all your subscribers, all your business associates to pass the work about his failure to perform. All I have stated is based on the assumption that there was indeed an exchange of money, and a failure to perform. I have no way to verify either. Again, let your conscience be your guide. But for your recommendation, this would never have happened. I trust you will come to the right conclusion. Simply stated, I trust you.
If you were recommending someone whom you knew for certain was no good, there might be a weak case for vicarious liability/ negligent advice if someone was relying on your advice to such an extent that a court could find a duty of care, but you withdrew endorsement fairly soon after realising for certain that the person was not up to scratch. There was no obligation for you to remove endorsement immediately because you owed the person the benefit of a doubt.
I believe you are not responsible because you acted in good faith. The fact is you were pleased with the material you purchased from this copy writer which means your perception of good may be different from his. Also, I believe it’s better to test the product first before spending that much money.
ERIC
As I think you are not responsible for this , you are honest and trustworthy, It is the mistake of that person, you are giving us very good lessons, all we are benefited by lessons of you, but my request to you to give us a lesson about the scam in the onlineworld, give us valuable lession on that point, we first need to be well educated about the scam in the internet, actually on recommendation of you we all have started to do onlinebusiess, it is time to know deeply about the scam.Sujit
You are not responsible for this customer to refund money that you didn’t receive. He should have did his research & checked the copywriters credentials before he paid him or asked for examples of his work he did for other marketers.
HI Eric,
Life is a risky business is it not. People recommend products to me all the time, some are good and some are lousy. Life is a learning curve with the occasional hardball thrown in the mix, you just have to keep your head up and your eye on the ball. Can you imagine how nervous sales reps would be if everyone sued because of a recommendation…WOW!!! I think the sales industry would collapse, the law suits would total in the millions.
You`ve done noting wrong Eric…try not to lose any sleep over it I have confidence in your Professionalism.
P.S. Thank you for your support and God Bless.
I have to laugh at people who say you can afford it…like it’s the money that is the issue (it’s not) and just because your wealthy means you have some kind of respondsibility or moral obligation to help the guy.
A person whom earns their money has no obligation, just because they can afford it, to pay for something they are not respondsible for.
It’s like saying the wealthy can afford to buy me a new car because I am not wealthy and they are and doing so isn’t a big deal for them… yea they can afford it and a few grand for a car may be nothing to them, but that doesn’t mean I deserve a car or the wealthy have any obligation to provide for me…
such sentiments and statements are pure garbage…. and it’s sad that people have such twisted feeligns for people whom have earned their wealth…
You don’t owe anything for recommending someone you thought could be trusted. But if you think you have any pull on the publisher, you might go to bat for the one who was short-changed. And that would only be out of the goodness of your heart, and might even help the dent that may have been put in your credibility. You owe no money to the one who was wronged by another.
Dwayne
hi eric,
the answer is no,you are not responsible and more over you need not pay.but having said that,i really do feel for the person who has lost the money.he has opted something which involves money and agreements based on a recommendation.this job is a tough one.if i were you,i would’ve given a compensation,if not the full amount for the sake of my image.
Hello Eric,
I have been a reader of yours for a long time now and can with all honestly say that you are among the few who really spend your personal time help others succeed in their on-line endeavors.
In my line of work I deal with many people everyday who are in some of the worst situations of their life. They are deep in debt and have either lost their jobs or have had some other problem that has caused them to fall behind on their payments.
Unfortunately a large number of the other debt settlement companies will knowingly tell people that they can help get them out of debt and take what little money they have left and end up leaving them in a worse situation.
They have no remorse for what they do and will continue to mislead people as long as they don’t take any initiative to verify what they are told.
This is why I always tell my clients that no matter what company they are considering to use that they must take the responsibility to do their own due diligence.
Just because you give a recommendation he should of taking more responsibility to double check before he handed over the full payment.
With that being said I am pretty sure that everyone has been in this situation before and it does suck. Eric is there anyway for you to talk with this copywriter? That is if you know him other than the one time you mentioned.
Everything aside I want to thank you for your teachings and best of luck. Hope you have a great Memorial Weekend and am looking forward to your next email.
Eric,
I believe that you should not pay for this gone-wrong copywriting project. Not only do you have no obligation – either legally or morally – but if you did make a payment, even in good faith, you would open up a can of worms that could impact all of internet marketing.
I hired a website designer to build an animated on-line membership site for me which, he said, would take him 6 weeks. I paid a deposit and one progress payment, but now he wants another payment of several thousand dollars to release the website. More than 6 months (and many emails) later, I am just about to sack this website designer as he has cost me half a year’s income. He has already said that he will not reimburse me any of the money I have paid him (he has spent it!)
If Eric were to pay Dragutin when it was [redacted] who received the payment, then I should be able to claim back the money I paid the website designer from the seminar organisers from whose Joint Venture table I picked up his advertising leaflet.
Where would it end?
I did some due diligence when researching the website designer, and I should have listened when alarm bells rang when one of the testimonies apologised for nagging him to get her website completed. Gut feelings are so often the right way to go.
The up side for me from this whole experience is that in the time taken for the website designer to reach this (non) point, I have done so much training that I now know how to do this myself. And the training means that I will never have to pay for the process again. For Dragutin, there are some very very good copywriting programs available for much less than he paid the copywriter so that he could easily produce his own letters. (I should become a AF of my favourite, shouldn’t I?) Thank you, Eric, for the training and tips you have given us. They work!
Dear Eric
I didn’t bother to read your comments about…
Am I legally liable?
What is the right and ethical thing to do?
because you have lost the plot in posting this blog
You have nurtured relationships with people and you have accepted money as part of that relationship
Forget the legalities, may we please have some integrity. I don’t have some loophole guarantee for our work.
Last week a supplier did not perform for me and my client was not happy… I immediately discounted our invoice and fixed the problem… that’s the real world and that’s why internet marketers who do not understand that come and and go… and there are a lot of big names who will not last past the hype because their customer service is crap
I would say that you are not responsible, but there is a thing called LAW, a person can be totally right, and the LAW can come back and bite you in the butt and say wrong.
My opinion is, the LAW to day is not to protect the innocent, it is to protect the crooks and scammers.
Look at gray 1. Can YOU prove that you were not affiliated with him when you recommended him? 2. Another point, can you prove that this is not a scam to make fast money and write an E Book on how to make money doing this? There are a lot of ways that the laws can be used against you, and 3. I would get some legal advice just to be safe. Ether way good luck.
Hi Eric
The following thoughts are based on a situation where the person making the recommendation is NOT a paid affiliate.
I do not believe you have a legal obligation, unequivocally. Okay that part was easy.
A recommendation that is ‘qualified’ in the sense that it states it is “based on my experience …” or something of the sort is a recommendation made in good faith and bears no further obligation.
A recommenation that is blindly made without any real frame of reference (ie. not based on a personal experience) should bear some liability … when you know readers are relying what you say.
Certainly a flippant recommendation (one lacking reasonalbe care) should bear some liability … in cases where the one making it knows others will be making purchases based thereon (whether or not compensated for the recommendation).
Moral is to not make any recommedations without a disclaimer … not necessarily legalese, but one that states “based on my experience at the time” … as things can change (eg. a good copywriter can become a bad copywriter at a later time due to personal problems).
I appreciate you sharing this with us Eric, as we are all at one time or another faced with the decision to recommend or endorse.
NO Eric, you are not responsible. Everyone makes a referral based on his experience or that of another he trusts or values. Your experience was good with this person so you gave a reference. All responsibility ultimately is our own when we make any decision
Dear Eric,
My point of view there is no fault on yourside.
Because you have recommended to your readers in good faith after you satisfied for his work.
As per the rule he should have paid money only after receiving some sample works.i guess he has not done so..i know you since for many months & i have been benifitted from your valuble lessons.you are one such a honest & inteligent internet marketer. that’s why as soon as you received the compalint against that writer you immedietly removed his name and link in your recomentations list.besides you feel sorry for that bitter experience happened to your reader..you are not responsible in any way for other people actions.because you have no control on others actions.so, you can feel for the person but,no need to refund the money..
Hi Eric
Paying the guy = Open flood gates.
Not paying the guy = Feeling Guilty (but not liable).
Only solution = Possible mediation between both parties which would fulfil any obligation that you may feel you owe which = Win Win!
Any cash payment would result in a serious knock on effect. Rick (mindfocus)2nd reply
Your right its one of the worst feelings that the pallet of human emotions can paint. Anger, frustration, regret, self-loathing… all rolled into one. The financial loss is the worst issue and the credit card company or paypal should be held responsible for this but paypal wont go beyond the minimum.
hi Eric, Anita has said what i was thinking – that perhaps you should (and all affiliates should) put a disclaimer clause in, even in letters and emails to that effect – it is a recommendation from good personal experience only but the buyer should do their own research and buy at their own risk.
I don’t think you are liable. As a Christian, I know this issue is obviously hard for you. I live in England, and am a Christian. I would personally reply to the guy outlining the above clauses on your website, but as a gesture, perhaps you could give him a little free help to either recover fees from this person or to help him do research in future. Big companies usually sweeten a complaint with a little “I hope this hasn’t put you off our product and we enclose a £5 voucher or whatever…” UK rules may be slightly different to the USA ones but I wish you well and know you will do the right thing, as you are that kind of nice person, one who people can easily take advantage of. I love your free email course and advice. This shows a generous spirit of giving as well. Blessings. Kim
My experience – You are a very generous and giving person. You are very pursuasive and influential. You gained my trust. I purchased something you recommended. I was not happy. You owe me nothing. But now I do not trust your recommendations & will not purchase more.
Erio,
Of course you are not responsible for the mistakes made by this IM. This forum will have some impact on the Copywriter although he wouldnt be the first writer to use a psuedonym to solicit work. You are a strong and honest presence on the internet, I have enjoyed following your posts. This does however, show that someone wasnt paying attention to your words, pictures and screenshots. Being careful is a consistant message on your posts. This egrieved individual was following a standard path by employing a writer. He failed himself by gettting ahead of the situation and not being prudent. I know, the IM world is exciting and seemingly fast-paced. But any one of the successful marketers will tell you of tedious research, endless testing, and clear visiion. Seeing that you are not without resources in the industry, maybe you could offer to put this person in touch with another reliable group or writers collective the he may then do his due dilligence. Thanks for your transperancey.
Eric,
You will find you are neither the employer nor the employee of the copywriter and as such are not responsible for his actions.
Eric,
Yes, you are completely responsible… for yourself!
Question: you made a recommendation for a service and for this recommendation you are owed a commission by the seller. Since you weren’t paid by the seller, would you write the buyer asking for your affiliate commission?… Of course not!
This is silly and if you pay Dragutin I will lose respect for you! Sorry, but that’s the truth.
Do the right thing. Don’t empower the entitlement philosophy that is ever so prevalent today. It is not compassionate to help the butterfly out of its cocoon, to do so assures the butterfly of a very early death (not that they live so long anyway!).
Now, with all that said, be smart… make a personal rubric for defining what is a good product or service to affiliate yourself with and those not to represent… represent the useful, disregard that which is not…
Hi Eric, an unfortunate incident that the guy had with the copywriter. You are not resonsible, but you recommended him. Its a matter of ethics. Since you have posted this to all your clients and good followers, i would recommend refunding him.
If you are a millionaire, which you probably are, and this guy is broke, trying to set up a business, i think you should refunde him.
It will look very good on yur part to all of your clients and followers, i think you would benifit much more in the long run.
Personally, since you put this out there, i would give him refund if i had lots of cash from my business, its a tax write off anyways.
You should take care of it…….You are christian too aren’t you???
Seeya buddy, love your site and all your hard work.
Brad From toronto.
Hi Eric,
This is not your responsibility. Anybody who buys anything, whether it was recommended by an Internet marketer or otherwise, should do some research on his own to see what other people are saying about a particular product.
It’s unfortunate that this guy got ripped off, but he should have known better, it involves a lot of money.
Trevor
Hey Eric,
Thank you for your generosity and integrity.
You have already given us much more than any errant referral could cost.
An agent has professional responsibility for the outcome of a client. You are NOT an agent nor have you implied agency.
Your advice may not be perfect, but it’s excellent.
With due respect… the complaint comes from an entitled employee mentality who had no intentions of sharing his success with you.
Nice way to handle an issue.
Ken Ward :^)
Ashland OR
Hey Eric,
As i see it , this guy will not stop at anything to get a refund. You are on here to teach us what to do ,how to make a business work. You may have mention people on here ,but this guy could have gone to others,,you owe him nothing … i feel you have guided me .i am doing just fine .
take care
Frank
Hello Eric,
I believe that you made a recommendation in good faith to the fellow who was burned by the copywriter in question. You used the services of this copywriter and you paid for his services before you gave any recommendation as an affiliate. You did not profit from this transaction.
Therefore, everything that I have read in this post leads me to believe that you have met or exceeded the “standard of reasonable care” of anyone (be they a friend or an internet marketer) who makes an honest recommendation after having freely engaged in an “arms length” transaction and in doing so, gives a recommendation based on a good experience.
Your intent was not to profit by deception. Your intent was to provide value and to offer help for this community.
I have been studying and referring to your lessons closely from the outset and I noted exactly when you pulled your recommendation for the copywriter in question. I had considered using this copywriter’s services based on your recommendation but I never considered paying for any work up front to this person and it was in the process of doing my “due diligence” that I discovered that you had pulled your recommendation and was thankful for your customary high level of honestly and integrity.
If I had not done my due diligence or if I had not noted that you had pulled your recommendation for this copywriter and had been burned by him, I would in no way expect you to compensate me for my mistake. You are not responsible for my actions in ANY way whatsoever.
I have compassion for the fellow that was burned. I too, have been scammed in the past and I think it goes without saying that we all learn from our mistakes. You are a Christian with high values and also have compassion for this fellow, but I do not think that anything is served by making a refund to him. Everything that you have done is above reproach.
I think that you state it well at the beginning of this post when you write:
“Obviously this is not something that needed to be made public, but I am doing so because I think we can have a good constructive conversation. This is an important topic that affects all Internet marketers.”
Once again, I think that you have demonstrated your commitment and dedication to this community by going far and away above the call of duty by bringing this matter to a public light.
This is a serious topic that affects all of us as Internet Marketers and I had to think long and hard about my response for this was perhaps one of the most difficult posts that I have ever made.
I conclude by saying that in my opinion, your Lesson #43 (Legal Compliance) should never be underestimated for its importance as it addresses some of the most important and critical legal issues that our community faces every day. I humbly suggest that we all study and re-study this one on an ongoing basis, closely. Thank you Eric for all of your hard work and for that which is to come.
Hi Eric
No you are not responsible for somebodies business transactions,even if it was on your recommendation.To keep this short I will just hit on a couple of reasons,first,people change over night,I have seen it many times in business,a reliable person,suddenly gets in a divorce,has money,or drug problems,suddenly letting you and everyone else down, and maybe even ripping you off.The person saying you are liable,is a type of scammer,but smart enough to play you as Mr.perfect.Write a nice letter back telling him your only human,and you will still give out recommendations,to be used at your own risk.and forget him. Lindsey
No, Eric, I don’t think you’re liable in any way.
Your dealings with the copywriter were satisfactory enough for you to recommend him to your clients, but you’re not responsible for the later actions of the copywriter. As I see it there was communication with the Dragutin anyway so how can he claim he received “nothing”. Especially as you received nothing by way of commission for the referral, I think you don’t have any obligation to make any refund at all. If the encounter was unsuccessful for Dragutin, then he just puts it down to experience – we’ve all been there! Dragutin, build a bridge and get over it!
This is asinine, & totally shows how ridiculous the, “Everyone else is responsible for my stupid decisions in life.” Just because you make a statement on your site recommending another business that, you had a good result from, that statement in no way relieves the prospective client, reading the recommendation of first “CHECKING OUT SAID BUSINESS BEFORE sending [redacted] $1344 (ie. Checking with BBB, etc). WAaaay to many wannabe adults these days play this crap, & it really ticks me off they can’t take responsibility for their irresponsible behavior with their finances. I’ve had enough trial time to know I’ll eat my shorts if this guy isn’t laughed out of the court-room.. if it were to go that far. Kinda like the New York Civil Judge who tried to sue the poor S Korean dry cleaners for $1,000,000 for losing his $50 pants. I wouldn’t offer this idiot anything except maybe the advise of “Shove it up your rectum!”
And.. once you knew your experience was a fluke with the scam letter writer, you did what you could to let it be known you no longer recommended [redacted].
My advice is tell [redacted] your recommending me for the letter writing from now on… “$1344” for writing a letter. Heck yeah, I can write a letter or two.. and I can even finish finish letters! What a putz.. Both [redacted], & the cry baby!
Absolutely not. Everyone takes risks. Big businesses put out adds that they pay for every single day-some flop some don’t Big businesses start projects that never get finished and hire contracters who never get the job done or done right. I built a house and part of the siding was messed up. The siding contractor was liable to fix “his” error but the builder still got his money.
This unfortunate experience is a risk of being in business. I feel for the guy because that was more than a few hundred bucks but the one responsible for the work is the guy he paid–not you Eric.
By the way Eric, great tips and training you have here. Keep up the awesome blog.
1.) No, you are not liable for making a recommendation. He was not paying you for your recommendation.
You did not guarantee this copywriter’s services.
What this guy needs to learn is that this is business. It’s called a business loss. It happens. Sometimes in our business, we make bad investments. That’s life, get over it.
I too, have made many bad business investments in my lifetime. I lost a commercial building, my home, lots of money and finally went bankrupt. Guess what, I took responsibility for my actions. Yeah, I had bad advice along the way, but ultimately, they were my choices and my decisions.
This guy needs to man up and take his loss like a real businessman and LEARN from his mistakes. That’s IT!
2.) I know you feel bad about recommending this copywriter. However, sh*? happens. You can’t be responsible for others actions.
If you really feel bad about this and it will help your concience, then give this guy his money back. However, ethically you have no responsibility here. You gave the recommendation in good faith and the copywriter let you down. It happens. It has probably happened before and will probably happen again.
I would not give him any money. He didn’t have to take your recommendation. That was his choice. He needs to take responsiblity for his own choices. I would tell him that I was sorry he had a bad experience and whish him well in the future.
These things happen all the time in business, not everything turns out rosy in every business dealing you are going to have. Don’t take it personally. Learn from it and drive on.
This poor guy that is whining about his money shouldn’t have risked it if he didn’t have it to risk in the first place. First of all the BBB doesn’t mean jack. Anybody can be a member of the BBB if you pay them an annual fee. It’s a scam organization. It doesn’t mean much. It was his fault that he let the guy go for 45 days w/o filing a complaint.
Again, it’s a business loss, it happens all the time in business. When it does, you write if off, learn from it and move on.
Nuff said. Let’s move on and get things done.
I have no sympathy for whiners and those who refuse to take responsibility for their actions.
Let me say that I, for one, think that you provide excellent advice, training and I have learned a tremendous amount of valuable info. from you, Eric. I have bought products from you and on your recommendation. Some I have been happy with, some not.
Don’t let this guy worry you. Keep up the good work.
(Now, aren’t you glad you asked for comments? HaHa)
Hi Eric,
I am sorry that this person lost that amount of money. It is also his responsiblity to double check, after all he is promoting his own business.
All businesses take a loss at some point. Many marketers have lost smaller amounts and I understand thousands of dollars on products over a period of time and they take it as a loss and learn from their mistakes .
There is no guarantee that what you do is going to work for you, but it may work for someone else. There should always be a disclaimer to protect your butt.
The way I see it. If you do it for one, the next person will say “That’s not fair!” You could end up paying a lot of greedy people out with unsubstantiated claims.
Cannot comment on the legality of it all. If it were me, I would do three things :-
1) Keep D as a future customer by offering to write his new letter for him, given he acknowledges that I was not the source of his problem. After all, it would simply cost me my (short) time and he gets what he wanted in the first place – and we are back to having a good working relationship.
2) Advise everyone on my list that this is what I decided to do, but only because it felt right to me to do so.
3) Create a video and send it to all on the dangers of concluding that recommendations are always current (at the time I said them) ; that they can and do change, sometimes very quickly and without notice ; that it is the ultimate responsibility of the viewer/reader when choosing to go or not to go with one of my recommendations (problem is, sometimes, that not stating the obvious can cause a few to put forward unjustifiable and unfair claims, whereas stating the obvious can usually stop them in their tracks – this from my own experience).
As an overzealous prosecutor might say, “someone will be held responsible.”
But that someone should be the offending party. Is that you? No.
With that said, there are still some lingering conscience issues that you obviously have to deal with or you would have just laughed and deleted his e-mails. And that being the case, I would suggest you contact the offending party (the bad copywriter) on behalf of your valued customer, (or client) and express your concern in the situation and remind him that it is in his best interest to take care of his reputation. As we can all see and anyone could see if they googled “[redacted] copywriter,” reviews for or against someone is significantly damaging to his reputation.
Here is one such example of how a bad reputation can turn up on the first page of Google. (At #5 position)
[Beware Of [redacted]
May 7, 2009 … [redacted], the owner of [redacted] has taken his potential to be a good copywriter and decided to throw his reputation away …
[redacted] – Cached]
It may already be to late for this guy, [redacted], to save his name in the I.M. world. But it is my humble opinion for you my dear Christian brother, that as Jesus said, if someone compelled you to go with him one mile, go with him two. By that I mean attempt to advocate for your valued customer and be our champion! You never know, maybe [redacted] will see the light and do the right thing.
God bless you Eric!