Yesterday I received an email from a reader who had hired a copywriter based on my recommendation in late 2009.
Unfortunately, he was not happy with the sales letter he received from the copywriter, and the copywriter allegedly did not complete the work he had been paid to do.
About seven weeks ago, the reader wrote to me about his negative experience with this copywriter. It was the second complaint I had received from readers regarding this copywriter, and I had also received an additional warning from a fellow marketer.
At that point, I pulled my endorsement of the copywriter, and made it clear on my website that I am no longer recommending him.
Now yesterday I received another email from the reader…
Hi Eric,
I hope you are well.
Just to let you know I contacted BBB.org, PayPal and my credit card company.
The business of [redacted] is not registered with BBB.org.
The complaint with PayPal can only be filed within 45 days from the date of payment and that period is exceeded due to [redacted] procrastination and the story telling.
My credit card company is not able to provide the refund of $1344 I paid to [redacted] for the letters he never wrote as there is an involvement from PayPal between them and the vendor.
I acted on your recommendation to choose services of [redacted] as you described him trustworthy and reliable.
From all people and businesses who gave testimonials on his web site only one responded on my enquiry.
The others simply ignored my enquiry and some of the have URL error.
I do not want to lose $1344 USD for nothing as I acted in full honesty and transparency and am asking you to provide me with the full refund.
Hope to hear from you soon.
Kind regards
Dragutin
As you’ve seen, the reader is asking me to compensate him for the payment he made to the copywriter.
I should mention that I do appreciate his polite tone. If he had sent a “flame” I wouldn’t be featuring it here.
I asked him for some additional information, and here is a copy of his communications with the copywriter:
PDF of email correspondence [redacted]
So there are really two questions at stake here…
1) Am I legally liable for the products I endorse or promote as an affiliate?
2) What is the right and ethical thing to do?
The ramifications are very significant, because the answers to these questions affect not only this situation but also…
– Everything I endorse/promote.
– Everyone who endorses anything or promotes something as an affiliate.
This is why the Internet marketing world was in a tizzy last December when the FTC rolled out their new guidelines for endorsements and testimonials.
So let’s answer the first question, as it applies to this situation:
Am I legally liable?
According to the FTC, endorsers may be liable for false or unsubstantiated claims made in an endorsement, or for failure to disclose material connections between the advertiser and endorsers.
Let’s talk about false or unsubstantiated claims.
If I had blindly promoted the product/service without checking it out first (as many affiliates do in this industry, and as I have done in the past on occasion), then I believe I might bear liability if my claims did not match up to the product. Let that be a word of warning to all affiliate marketers: You ARE responsible for what you say/write.
However, in this case I was speaking from first-hand experience. I had actually paid this copywriter $197 to write a sales letter for me, and I felt that the product I received was a good value for the amount that I had paid.
Therefore, my claim was substantiated, and I made the recommendation in good faith that the copywriter would provide similar value for other customers.
Now let’s talk about disclosing material connections.
I initially wrote my recommendation in October of 2009, which was prior to the new FTC guidelines going into effect.
When the new guidelines went into effect on December 1st, I added an “Affiliate & Material Connection Statement” to my website, which I believe satisfies this requirement. If I am shown otherwise, then I might need to get more aggressive about disclosing material/affiliate relationships.
In this particular case, I never did get paid an affiliate commission for the sale in question. So I’m not sure how that affects the material connection from a legal standpoint. Am I still an affiliate if I’m getting scammed too?
OK, so in my opinion I am NOT legally liable for the copywriter’s failure in this situation.
But that brings us to the next question…
What is the right and ethical thing to do?
Although I am someone who believes in absolute truth, and a clear distinction between right and wrong… the realm of ethics can still be grey at times.
I’ve tried to put myself in the customer’s shoes.
If I were him, I probably would have written the same email to me.
I’ve been a victim of scams in the past, so I’m familiar with what he is feeling. It’s one of the worst feelings that the pallet of human emotions can paint. Anger, frustration, regret, self-loathing… all rolled into one. The only way out of it is to go through the grief cycle, and reach a point of acceptance.
From the look of my dear reader’s emails, he’s gone through the denial and anger stages, and has now come around to the bargaining stage. Like I said, I’d be bargaining too.
I see this from two perspectives… justice, and compassion.
From the justice standpoint, I believe it would not be right for me to give him the refund out of my own pocket. Would justice be served by this? No.
Now… IF I had been paid a commission, I do think partial justice could be served if I refunded that commission to the customer. But in this case, there is no commission to speak of.
From a compassion standpoint, I’d love to help out my reader.
If we were talking about a much smaller dollar amount, I probably would have just offered to pay for it (or more likely… I wouldn’t have gotten an email about it in the first place). But $1344 is a decent chunk of change.
We all know the golden rule: do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
If it were the other way around, would I want him to pay for my refund out of his pocket? Yes I would, at this moment in time. But after more time has passed, I would most likely come to the conclusion that justice would not be served by an otherwise innocent affiliate paying me out of his own pocket.
In other words, my sense of justice would eventually trump my desire for recompense. (The two are not mutually exclusive. The victim should be paid back in order for justice to be served, but taking the money from the wrong person is not the solution)
So I do not think it is my moral obligation to pay for the customer’s loss…
But I want to know what YOU think!
I told the customer I would post this on my blog, and take my reader’s opinions into consideration.
I want to know:
What would you do in my situation, and why?
I am absolutely willing to pay a full refund to the customer if the arguments in his favor outweigh the arguments against.
I wish I could just err on the side of compassion, but obviously such a precedent could open me up to a lot of headaches and abuse due to other customers taking advantage of my leniency. If that is the outcome, then I will probably change some things about how I run my business.
Post your comments below. Please do not “trash” me OR the customer or even the copywriter. That’s not the point of this. At the same time I am not necessarily looking for support. I want your honest opinion, even if you are not on my side.
Obviously this is not something that needed to be made public, but I am doing so because I think we can have a good constructive conversation. This is an important topic that affects all Internet marketers. So let us know what you think.
Thanks for your input!
UPDATE: I’ve now posted the conclusion to this saga here:
U r not responsible u did not know nick was a crook u can’t give someone a refund based on another persons mistake
You don’t owe him a cent.
Hi Eric! I agree with Tim Ackley and I’m not a lawyer either, but I think that a sympathetic hand, helping him to go to the service where this jerk advertises his wares, and getting their help blacklisting him would be a nice thing for you to do. If you earned an affilliate fee for recommending him, that gets a bit dicey. Also,someone could go the the extent of contacting all known services where he might try to register, and warn them of his (non-)activity Shut him down completely. That will get his attention for sure. Anyway, Good Luck, and Keep Up The Good Work! best Regards! Stan
Eric,
I don’t know anything about Internet Marketing, but this blog as a whole seems to be a cry for attention, or a solicitation to co-sign how you’ve been a victim. Take responsibility. How much research and investigative reports did you do on the individual that you referred or endorsed? If I go to my primary doctor and ask for a referral to a specialist, I trust his referral. If I see the specialist, and get ripped off…as a consumer, I’m likely to go back to my primary physician and request damages.
Another thing to consider: How much is your time worth? There’s already 60+ comments. The time it would take you to read all of our opinions and come to a decision may be worth more than just paying the guy. Most people won’t take your kindness for weakness.
Last but not least, I doubt any of us are lawyers. See a lawyer and find out what you are legally responsible and liable for. Use this experience as a learning lesson for your business development.
Well Eric, this is quite a quandary.
As I see it, it would be the responsibility of the buyer to do his part of, what is the term, “Due Diligence” and find out all he could regarding what he was about to purchase and from whom, no matter who made the recommendation.
Also, some sort of written contract might have been in order for the amount of money that was about to change hands spelling out what the person was going to do for the money being paid.
That being said, I do not think he has any legal grounds to come to you for the money except it may be a last ditch effort to re coop his loss.
Should you have any thoughts as to reimburse him anything you would be opening the door for more people blaming you for any bad decisions they may have made working in this business.
Which brings me to this, I lost money last year…. just kidding.
It seems that the train of thought as far as answers are pretty much unanimous, from what I read.
Best of luck!
Eric Hendrix
Where you went wrong was in not referring the copywriter through a outsourcing company like ODesk or Rent-a-coder. That way you would have been protected through the guidelines of these outsourcing companies.
Eric, I love these videos of yours thanks so much.
in my humble opinion:
1. you are NOT responsible / legally liable
2. the right and ethical thing to do may be:
offer some type of product/service AND perhaps also recommend something on that person’s behalf on a ONE-TIME basis, say, an Advertisement of some sort for a few months to give him a chance to recoup.
Hi Eric, Thanks for the offer to respond to this.
I know you have high standards.
1. Why recommend somebody without checking him or her out?
2. Do you realize that we your readers trust your judgment and direction on many things concerning internet marketing so therefore accept your recommendations in good faith?
3. What have you learned from this?
4. Does Dragutin accept any responsibility himself?
I don’t believe this brings the industry down just those concerned, my advice is move away from this standoff ASAP
Thanks for all your help
Have an awesome day
Noel
Hi Eric,
This is unfortunate for the guy who got ripped off, but you are not liable.
You made a recommendation based on the information you had at the time.
Let us look at another example.
If I go to McDonald’s and have a triple cheeseburger with extra large fries and a large coke and I recommend this to all my friends and they all get fat or die of a heart attack, does that mean I need to compensate them or pay back the cost of all the meals they have purchased at McDonald’s due to my recommendation.
That is only one example.. I am sure you could come up with dozens more..
Having said that.. although you are under absolutely no obligation to pay back this person.. you may feel bad about it. So.. IF you financially can afford it.. then make a token part payment to him as a kind gesture because you feel for the guy who got ripped off..or maybe offer some personal coaching in lieu .. Just my 2 cents.
The one big mistake I see, is that Dragutin should not have paid the copywritter upfrount. This would have solved the majority of the problems Dragutin had with him.
Both of you have learned a very good lesson, and by bringing this out in the open, others will also learn it to. Be sure of the people you deal with. I say you do what you think is right Eric, you have to live with it.
Eric,
You did not enter into a contract with either of these two in this transaction. I agree that there should not be any liability to you. It is clear that this person who paid over a thousand dollars for an internet marketing letter – and is completely unsatisfied – is feeling pain. Perhaps, this is the “life lesson” he did not want, but received. However, I also agree that there may be something gained by offering something to this individual that won’t cost you very much, and may TURN A NEGATIVE INTO A POSITIVE. Just think about it …. in every problem lies an opportunity. This is a great opportunity for you. He is supposed to be more interested in the letter and his marketing success than in a refund. A good marketing letter or some type of marketing assistance will help him achieve his goals. While I think the money would make him feel better, and I think he will be wiser how he spends it the next time, … it is the expert marketing help that he needs that is missing. He may be a tough customer, but I think there may be an excellent solution to help him in some way that you are able to. I have total faith that you will do something creative to turn this darkness into light.
Dave
Keep it strictly business Eric,you will open up Pandora’s box if you give in.
If I were you and I could afford to pay him, I would. Here’s why I say this. You endorsed this fellow so this has a reflection on your reputation. I am not sure one interaction justifies an endorsement unless it clearly states I did business one time and here is what happened. But on the hand, the consumer has obligation to investigate the provider. I recently a 500 dollar product through a well know affiliate, his recommendation played a big part in my decision.
I think comes down to really knowing who you recommend – maybe your rules are not strict enough.
I don’t think leagally or even ethically you have an obligation to pay this money but as I said if it were me and I could afford it I would- because my reputation is on the line. Personally I have a bought a lot through your link based on your recommendation, nothing that expensive but I wouldn’t expect you to refund me in I were not satisfied but I would certainly let you know.
Maybe the keyword here is grace.
Dave
While I feel the pain of this person I think he is out of the bounds of common sense to request a refund from you based on your explanation of your good experience. If you were in cohorts with [redacted] then yes you would and should be liable. Aside from that, you have no control of the circumstances and are not obliged in any way ethically or morally to issue a refund especially since you did not profit from it.
If you had profited then I agree at least a refund of what you earned should be refunded to the person.
Yes a lot of money is lost for this person but in the end it is their ultimate responsibility to do their own due diligence and one recommendation should not be the sole reason.
As a good copywriter I was not surprised at the communications nor the product that was furnished. Definitely that is a very bad sales letter. It looks as though he applied a very cheap outline template from someone else’s work and pretty poorly. I must say that the communications seem to lack clarity which seems to be both parties faults.
The other issue is that this person paid it all upfront when the standard is half up front the rest upon completion. That is just plain naiveté to pay all the money upfront.
Some lessons are just plain hard learned and this seems to be one of those, unfortunately.
Hi Eric
In my opinion you have absolutely NO obligation to pay the refund or part thereof to Dragutin. Although, I do understand the frustration and helplessnes he must feel, only he and [redacted] are responsible for sorting the issue out. Your only obligation is to communicate with [redacted] that you cannot endorse this kind of business practise and that he must resolve the issue, since you once recommended his service. Dragutin has his share of responsibility, as he should not have allowed this to drag on for so long until the PayPal refund deadline had passed and/or put more pressure on his credit card company to work on his behalf and return the funds.
Unbelievable that [redacted] would allow this issue to escalate to such a level, he obviously wants to run his business into the ground as he has already lost a whole bunch of potential customers from this threat and who knows where else this is going!
Cheers,
Peter
If I recommend a person to do a certain job.
Then I consider 2 things.
1) The personality
2) The knowledge and experience
If the two things are matching my needs and if I am not talking in general. Then I have a responsibility, of course.
But, I am never responsible of the contract and the work the two parties are agreed on.
I am not responsible for the work or the outcome of such a job that has been done.
Finally:
I have recommended that person out of my present knowledge at that time. I do not know the parties upcoming contracts and idea of the final result.
Regards
ANders Jacobsson
My recommendation is:
Do not act in any way because You Do Not Know All Details In This Contract.
The 50% crossed my mind as well.
Dave
No, it’s not your fault, you just made recommendation in good faith and that’s it. Dragutin should realize that he is solely responsible for his every action and no one else even if someone recommends him. In my opinion, there is no such thing as 100% guarantee.
Eric
You are certainly not liable. You acted in good faith, based on your personal experience with this copywriter. You have no way of controlling the quality of work that other people provide. You can only hope that they will maintain the high standard that you experienced. No, you do not owe this gentleman a refund for someone else’s dishonesty. Keep strong Eric, you have my full support on this.
You do not owe anything, the money amount is not the issue, how many of us have recommended a movie we thought was good only to have a friend say it was the worst movie they had ever seen. If you don’t Agee I know an excellent DR his name is Kavorkian he is really good at what he does 🙂 Critics don’t get suied if they recomend a resturaunt someone gets food poisioning from.
I have to agree with the consensus that you are not liable legally on this matter.
As far as the ethical or right thing to do… well, if you have some way of helping him end up with some good copywriting just because you want to help him, and you have the means to do so, then if it were me, I would probably try to help in some way.
I feel badly for him and I don’t think I see a way for him to get his monies back. But perhaps with some assistance from you and/or other sources, he can make back that money in the form of sales, etc.
I personally would be devastated to lose that kind of money, but if someone stepped up to the plate and helped me “make” some money so I didn’t feel the loss so dramatically, I think I would be the most grateful and loyal person forever and some of my confidence in others would be restored.
And that’s my sort of final answer… 🙂
Christine
If he bought through your affiliate link, then I think you could offer to reimburse him for what you would have received (even if you didn’t) He may have taken your recommendation then bought through another link or gone straight to the copywriter direct. I do not think you have any obligation, legal or moral if he didn’t buy through your link.
Hi Eric,
I cannot see how you could possibly be held responsible for giving a recommendation. This writer gave you good service, albiet it sounds like it was only on one occasion, but that is no reason to believe that they would do otherwise for someone else.
I’ve given many recommendations in my life, but that does not make me responsible if the other person didn’t have the same experience as I did. As many people have already posted, the issue is between those two parties and has nothing to do with you. How were you to know that [redacted] wasn’t going to deliver? You couldn’t.. and had no reason to believe he would not based on your experience.
I was once referred to a dentist by a friend of mine when I was living in Sedona, and my experience was that this guy should have gone to architectural school rather than dentistry because he totally botched my root canal. That doesn’t mean my friend is responsible however.. it just makes his experience with this dentist different than mine was.
I could get into how like attracts like and the Law of Attraction here because that has a great deal to do with it.. but I won’t. Suffice it to say that you are not responsible whatsoever.
Cheers bro..
John
Hi Eric,
While I feel very sorry for the customer I think he is coming back at you out of frustration with the copywriter. $1344.00 loss is awful, but continuing to concentrate on it could be losing him more money. I don’t think you are responsible for the loss, the bad service, or a refund. I’m sure Eric if you could do anything to get [redacted] to give this customer what he paid for then that would be my suggestion.
No legally you are not liable, principally because you did not receive any consideration or payment from this vendor.Ethically, after you have found that this is a legititmate contention, you may offer to pay for half of his cost and have your legal counsel go after the accused vendor. I am positive that your legal aide would not initiate any serious course of action without being 100% certain that you have a case and that you can collect the money involved, when you collected you will give your reader the full refund.
This will accomplish many things,one: you will regain credibility and caress “karma”in the right way,two you will set a presidence with the other vendors that you recommend,not to take advantage of customers,or face your wrath, three you will get a good reputation all around… as you have more than demonstrated by giving away a ton of valuable information all gratis…that you are truly a man of great character. Your greatest expectation would be to find out how the universal law of “karma” will reward you…and it will reward you.
Eric,
stand strong – yet compassionate as possible – as you are not responsible for the unfortunate business between the complainer and the copywriter. You recommended him based on a $197 sales letter transaction that was a successful transaction. After you became aware of the discord, you made it known to your subscribers. You did the right thing.
You should not pay him.
That would be the same as someone trying to sue me because Tylenol cured my headache and I told them that Tylenol worked great for me…but yet subsequently made them ill after they tried it based on my experience.
I can’t see you taking responsibility for this. Your recommendation was reporting your good experience. If the Advertising Industry was liable for every product advertised, the industry would have been shut down years ago.
I understand the customers frustration, but he has to understand his ultimate responsibility for his own actions (or lack of timely action) and take it as a learning experience not to be repeated. Sometimes tuition for such a lesson is high.
I can’t blame him for trying and you may lose him as a customer, but he made the deal.
Eric I got one question, why did he spend so much at the start.I don’t feel you are obilgated to pay for someone else that didn’finish his work.This is a hard way for a person to learn a lesson but I have learn that you check a person out even if your own brother told you he was good. I think that I would have to have a contract sign by him in my hands.
When I was working as an Independent Financial Adviser, I was responsible for the advice given to my clients.
I could supply the customer with all sorts of disclaimers at the point of sale, which were their to protect me as an adviser to prevent future litigation.
However if it could be deemed that we had not carried out proper due diligence for the recommended product and this included whether the client bought the contract or not. I was liable.
If carried into internet marketing, it would mean that everytime you send emails to prospects making a recommendation that they need to sign a disclaimer stating they didn’t want to take your advices if they chose not to buy the product.
Because sometime in the future,it might have proved beneficial if they had and you didn’t sell the benefits hard enough. Sounds farcical but true!
In your case a newpaper that allows an advertiser to advertise is responsible for the advert it runs, for example a product that is not described properly and is not fit for purpose. Is liable under mail order protection schemes.
Hence the big shift in rules over postings with ebay, amazon etc about products it sells where it will sue whoever places mis-described items and non delivered etc.
The law in most cases states that the claimant should pursue whoever he paid the money to and if not rectified to his satisfaction, then pursue the recommending party.
In your case if the copywriter could prove that you should not have recommended him, to undertake a certain project, then you would be liable.
The whole thing is becoming fudged and the future points to if you gave a stranger in town direction and he subsequently became lost, that he would claim for lose of time and shoe leather.
My own feeling is this, if I phoned a plumber that advertised on Yell.com and he did a rotten job, I wouldn’t have paid him, if I had I’d sue him and contact Yell about the damage to their reputation that someone so shoddy being on their books could cause.
But I wouldn’t hold them liable.
These are just my views and I’m not qualified to make legal representation, but I enjoy a good rant though.
Hope both of you reach a satifactory resolve amicabily.
In all honesty, there are simply too many of such crap providers out there. I can understand why he wants to seek refund but he should be yelling at his card company and PayPal for it. I had similar problems with PayPal, it was a straight no from them. We cant boycott them as they are too big. Maybe a petition to PayPal for their practice would be good.
You should not feel morally responsible. I feel you do a good job on the way you recommend resources. No commission, no money!
Well, I guess I am the odd “man” out here. I think that you are ethically responsible, but not legally for obvious reasons. But because you endorsed the copywriter, even if it was in good faith, people look to your advice to get the answers that we do not have. [redacted] was awful to this Dragutin (sp?) character, and was a breach of anything you wrote about him. As much as it’s a shame, I do feel you are ethically responsible. I am sorry. I believe you’re the only honest man I have ever read on the net, but I think if you endorse a person through one of your programs, you should be able to stand by that viewpoint. That being said, legally this would just be another “passing the buck” case in which “X” robs “Z” because “Y” told him “Z” had a lot of money lying around the house. “Y” is morally responsible for his actions, but cannot be legally bound just because “X” seized an opportunity to get something for nothing based on gossip or opinion.
The fact is [redacted] owes Mr Dragutin the money. I think an apology from you along with an explanation should suffice between you and Dragutin. But I am happy to see that you’ve stopped endorsing [redacted]. I know you said not to bash anyone, but I feel I am an honest gal, too. And he was a very dirty player in this picture. He puts everything that everyone is looking for in question. And that “everything” is honesty..a rare gem online. What a shame.
You are not liable to pay this person any money. You are responsible for checking the quality of the people you recommend.
Eric,
You are not responsible, nor should be held responsible for the actions of the copywriter. You recommended him in good faith, having had a good experience yourself. The copywriter himself should finish the work or give the refund.
You are not responsible for the Dragon’s loss.
But then again how much is your name worth?
Eric, You are not responsible for [redacted]’s actions or making restitution for what he did to Dragutin.
You recommended [redacted] in good faith and had no reason to think [redacted] would pull a fast on him.
Dragutin should be taking [redacted] to court and taking what ever steps are necessary to see [redacted] never gets work again, not trying to lay a guilt trip on you.
If I were him, I’d file complaints with the BBB, the State’s Attorney, Rip-off report, different forums and so on.
Dragutin needs to be measured and specific in his language of course.
A friend of mine was scammed by an insurance company and contacting the different states consumer’s boards, State’s Attorney and so on eventually led to recovery because the negative publicity was too much.
I hope Dragutin gets his.
Eric,
Recommendations are just that! Nick treated you right when you dealt with him and that is what your opinion is based on. If Nick knew who you were in the IM world he may have put more of an effort to please you than he would on an unknown IM but…as he got more referrals from you he began to fall behind in his schedule and instead of pushing these out in 2 days it was taking him 2 weeks or longer causing undue grief to the customer. The other unknown is how they conducted business with each other! Obviously Dragutin must have not put money in an escrow such as guru.com or rent–coder does to protect their customers from exactly what happened here. Eric you don’t have to question your ethics or morality! Everything you’ve said or done in the past is way above reproach and all of the good things far surpasses some mistakes you may have had. If Dragutin can’t figure out HOW to get and use the information he should hire a mentor to spoon feed him. You don’t owe him jack! Life’s a bi%$# and then you die!
Eric,
You are not legally or morally responsible for this persons troubles.
He made several errors of doing business online.
He should have checked this person on his own, should not have paid him upfront, and should not have let it drag on so long.
I know you are feeling much compassion for this person, but you would probably be opening yourself up to many more people trying to get you make refunds to them for problems of their own making.
I would say that you have the same responsibility as any one who recommends any service, none! It is a classic case of FOUCAULT’S PENDULUM Swinging uncontrollably
I think people should take responsibility for the things they do. It`s just like suing cigarette companies for you smoking their product that you knew was going to kill you.
Hey Eric,
It was an authoritative recommendation based on what you knew at the time. No one expects (or, at least, should expect) an authority (which I feel you are) to be right at all times. If they do, they are delusional.
That’s one of the reasons why I hate it when people (marketers) use the catch phrases – free, simple, easy and instant as in “become an Instant Expert.” Just a little pet peeve of mine that I like to bring to the forefront reminding people that there are no absolutes – there are just too many variables to take into consideration.
Therefore, anytime I buy something I put the onus of responsiblity on myself regardless of who made the recommendation. It’s called personal responsibility.
Although, I must admit – it never hurts to present your case and ask. You may get lucky.
Regardles of what goes on here, it’s your call and, frankly, I wouldn’t post the outcome here other then to say that the matter has been resolved.
Eric…
Your recommendation was an opinion… not a promise. Here is a what I consider a close example.
Some time ago Oprah gave an opinion about the tainted meat that was being sold here in the USA.. Stating.. “I personally would NOT eat the meat in the country right now” (paraphrasing.
The result was a large loss of sales by the beef industry which resulted in a class action lawsuit against Oprah.
Oprah won hands down as it was her OPINION… not a conclusion based on scientific fact.
Not sure if that is a close enough example to go by … but close. Oprahs opinion was a negative factor while yours is based on the positive.
Eric,
Are you kidding me? I think you know the answer to your predicament. You don’t need random readers to give their unbiased opinon so that you can make a calculated decision on this very simple case. Ok, here is the bottom line. When entering into a contract or agreement either in writing or verbal, there must be “consideration given” in order for a party to be liable. You are a third party in the matter. You neither gave consideration nor received it. The two parties involved are the ones that have to settle this.
As a third party, you are acting on good faith
experience and are NOT liable for the actions of another solely on recommendation alone, no matter how strong the recommendation is. It is the injured party, in this case, the receiver of the letter to act against the copywriter to procure refund. No court in the land would find you liable for any third party recommendations. The operative word here is “consideration”. You did not receive any commissions or kickbacks from this transaction. Therefore, rest assured my good friend, you are free and clear from every point of view. You are a very wise and clever man, I must admit.
. lol . I wish I had studied computers in college, I would be right there along with you. However, starting out now in mid-career to try to get an online business going is to say the least quite an undertaking..
I do enjoy, however, your videos, and applaude you for the effort. You give your subscribers a wealth of valuable information that others charge quite a penny for. You do it for free!You have taught me many things about online marketing which I actually use in traditional
business. Thanks buddy.
Keep up the amazing work.
P.S. Prior to following you, I checked you out totally. I found absolutely nothing negative written about you anywhere. You are one of the very few internet markets that upholds the respect that you do.
You are great Eric.
your friend,
Ari
I like your having posted the issue with your readers. Several matters need to be considered to determine the legal liability for the actions of another person.
1. Is there a contract or agreement that arises from your “endorsing” another service provider? My answer is no. You were not aware of the existence of the agreement between your reader and the person you endorsed and not in a position to control or police it. The amount seems large so I will assume there may have been some performance provided by Nicolas [redacted] to Dragutin. Dragutin has a claim for performance by [redacted] even if his right to contest it has expired with the credit card company (typically 30 days). Having failed to contest it within the required time is a factor weighing against Dragutin, but he can still seek to enforce his claim, by persuasion or by seeking enforcement in small claims court of the state involved, although that may not be very practical, because of the need to appear in court and get jurisdiction over the Mr. [redacted]. In conclusion on point 1, you have no liability to Dragutin, but he does have a right to make his claim against Mr. [redacted].
2. Is there a moral obligation for you to reimburse Dragutin because you “endorsed” Mr. [redacted]? I do not believe you do under the circumstances. I believe you acted under appropriate moral guidelines by ceasing to feature Mr. [redacted] on your website. You put him on your website because of a good experience with him. Now that there has been a bad experience with him, it is right to remove him. It appears that although you named him on your website, it was less than an endorsement. I would also recommend that you put a disclaimer on your website for persons you feature there so that your readers know that you are not assuming any responsibility for arrangements made between your readers and persons who are featured on your website. Conclusion: You are not legally or morally responsibility to repay Dragutin for services he did not receive from someone else. Your well reasoned analysis does the job well, but I like your having involved your readers in the analysis.
Darian Andersen
Eric,
I do not feel you are liable for any refund. Your initial recommendation was because of a positive personal experience. Then when you heard about that person not treating the customers fairly, you pulled your recommendation.
Since they waited so long to file complaints, they are probably out the money.
If you think you might be able to help him get his money back from the copywriter, then make some suggestions.
This type of thing is scarey for those of us wanting to get started in Affiliate Marketing using PayPal and ClickBank, etc.
How many Affiliates actually personally use all the products they market??
Are they liable if their referral gets scammed?
I know just how you feel. I am so tired of all of the empty promises. I think that if these sites are legitimate, they should let someone try out the product and then pay for it if it works. I have yet to find a product that pays!!
Dear Eric,
As an appreciative follower and current customer, I must say I deeply appreciate your transparency in this situation. As a former judge and attorney, I have a studied opinion on the matter. And, as a dedicated internet and affiliate marketer, I felt the issues raised were so urgent that I paused my project on a deadline to enter my response.
The internet is truly the great equalizer. Through this amazing vehicle anyone, of any background, can gain access to mountains of information on any topic, create a business for little to no monetary investment, and even communicate directly with someone on the other side of the world at the click of a mouse. Truly the world at your fingertips.
However, as with any privilege, with this brilliant communication portal comes an accompanying responsibility. Although I should state that this is my personal opinion, with no attempt to issue a legal opinion, based on the facts as I understand them I would agree with your assessment that you do not \”legally\” owe Mr. Dragutin a refund. Since you apparently made a reasonable recommendation for services based on your personal knowledge of past performance, and you did not receive any compensation for the recommendation, I believe your connection to the transaction would not be significant enough to demand that you cure the wrong that unquestionably occurred.
My hat is off to you for your character in taking your analysis one step further, to the true heart of the matter, the moral ground. I am reminded of Portia\’s speech in the Merchant of Venice:
\”The quality of mercy is not strained. It blesses him who gives, and him who receives.The quality of mercy is not strain\’d, It droppeth, as the gentle rain from heaven Upon the place beneath: it is twice bless\’d; It blesseth him that gives, and him that takes. \’Tis mightiest in the mightiest; it becomes The throned monarch better than his crown; His sceptre shows the force of temporal power, The attribute to awe and majesty, Wherein doth sit the dread and fear of kings; But mercy is above this sceptred sway, It is enthroned in the hearts of kings, It is an attribute to God himself; And earthly power doth then show likest God\’s When mercy seasons justice. Therefore, though justice be thy plea, consider this— That in the course of justice, none of us Should see salvation: we do pray for mercy; And that same prayer, doth teach us all to render The deeds of mercy.\”
Do you have an obligation to issue a refund? In my opinion, no. Would it set an unwarranted negative precedent for you to pay cash in this situation? Yes.
In almost every situation, there is always a third solution, which is what I would propose. Mr. Dragutin paid for copywriting services. You are a copywriter, and you possess a library of valuable copywriting content. You clearly have a merciful heart toward the situation, as any of us with compassionate hearts understand and admire.
Why not give this kind gentlemen some of your valuable services, as your response in integrity to a shameful situation? This, I repeat, would be a GIFT, offered to make a wrong situation right; mercy to the innocent, and a strong moral statement and example on your part.
Frequently life can create magic out of misfortune…perhaps there is a reason you and this gentleman intersected.
One parting note: the internet is also the finest democracy, and ultimately shines light on truth and right behavior. Perhaps some of [redacted]\’s friends can impress upon him the importance of addressing mistakes head-on, with remorse, given the terrible blow to his character and reputation that this very public matter has created. This would be an appropriate time, and an appropriate forum, to make amends.
Blessings to you, Eric, and to you, Mr. Dragutin.
And yes, to you as well, [redacted]. You\’ve apparently done good work before; that is evidence that you can do the right thing.
p.s. WOW! 93 comments by the time I was able to post…when I started there was only 1!!
LOL, that’s what a lawyer gets for being long-winded!
In my opinion The Copywriter is liable for the damages incurred on you (Eric) as well as the displeased Client.
In the future more research should be done before considering promoting/endorsing a product or service as to avoid situations as such.
I hope in the end that the Client be fully reimbursed by the Copywriter for inconveniencing him.
To you Eric be more vigilant with products/services that you endorse/promote on your site as to recommend to your readers in the future.
Good luck in the future and as for the Copywriter he should be more careful with who messes with, he might not be so lucky next time around.
Don`t mess with people good name
I don’t think you are liable. I agree with you that if it were a smaller amount of money, it would be worth it just to make the problem go away. But, this is a chunk of money. I think the other person should do the refund.
Some of the best advice ever on buying and selling: Caveat Emptor, that is, Let The Buyer Beware. Our extremely litigious society leads people to think like this person who is asking you to refund. His reasoning is, someone has to compensate me because I got burned, I made a mistake. The fact is, he chose to spend his money on this. He said yes. He clicked and paid, regardless of who may have influenced his decision. We all are responsible for our own actions, at least we all used to be, and this is an unfortunate and costly lesson for him. Sorry, no free ride because you got beat, Mr. Dragutin. Live and learn.