Yesterday I received an email from a reader who had hired a copywriter based on my recommendation in late 2009.
Unfortunately, he was not happy with the sales letter he received from the copywriter, and the copywriter allegedly did not complete the work he had been paid to do.
About seven weeks ago, the reader wrote to me about his negative experience with this copywriter. It was the second complaint I had received from readers regarding this copywriter, and I had also received an additional warning from a fellow marketer.
At that point, I pulled my endorsement of the copywriter, and made it clear on my website that I am no longer recommending him.
Now yesterday I received another email from the reader…
Hi Eric,
I hope you are well.
Just to let you know I contacted BBB.org, PayPal and my credit card company.
The business of [redacted] is not registered with BBB.org.
The complaint with PayPal can only be filed within 45 days from the date of payment and that period is exceeded due to [redacted] procrastination and the story telling.
My credit card company is not able to provide the refund of $1344 I paid to [redacted] for the letters he never wrote as there is an involvement from PayPal between them and the vendor.
I acted on your recommendation to choose services of [redacted] as you described him trustworthy and reliable.
From all people and businesses who gave testimonials on his web site only one responded on my enquiry.
The others simply ignored my enquiry and some of the have URL error.
I do not want to lose $1344 USD for nothing as I acted in full honesty and transparency and am asking you to provide me with the full refund.
Hope to hear from you soon.
Kind regards
Dragutin
As you’ve seen, the reader is asking me to compensate him for the payment he made to the copywriter.
I should mention that I do appreciate his polite tone. If he had sent a “flame” I wouldn’t be featuring it here.
I asked him for some additional information, and here is a copy of his communications with the copywriter:
PDF of email correspondence [redacted]
So there are really two questions at stake here…
1) Am I legally liable for the products I endorse or promote as an affiliate?
2) What is the right and ethical thing to do?
The ramifications are very significant, because the answers to these questions affect not only this situation but also…
– Everything I endorse/promote.
– Everyone who endorses anything or promotes something as an affiliate.
This is why the Internet marketing world was in a tizzy last December when the FTC rolled out their new guidelines for endorsements and testimonials.
So let’s answer the first question, as it applies to this situation:
Am I legally liable?
According to the FTC, endorsers may be liable for false or unsubstantiated claims made in an endorsement, or for failure to disclose material connections between the advertiser and endorsers.
Let’s talk about false or unsubstantiated claims.
If I had blindly promoted the product/service without checking it out first (as many affiliates do in this industry, and as I have done in the past on occasion), then I believe I might bear liability if my claims did not match up to the product. Let that be a word of warning to all affiliate marketers: You ARE responsible for what you say/write.
However, in this case I was speaking from first-hand experience. I had actually paid this copywriter $197 to write a sales letter for me, and I felt that the product I received was a good value for the amount that I had paid.
Therefore, my claim was substantiated, and I made the recommendation in good faith that the copywriter would provide similar value for other customers.
Now let’s talk about disclosing material connections.
I initially wrote my recommendation in October of 2009, which was prior to the new FTC guidelines going into effect.
When the new guidelines went into effect on December 1st, I added an “Affiliate & Material Connection Statement” to my website, which I believe satisfies this requirement. If I am shown otherwise, then I might need to get more aggressive about disclosing material/affiliate relationships.
In this particular case, I never did get paid an affiliate commission for the sale in question. So I’m not sure how that affects the material connection from a legal standpoint. Am I still an affiliate if I’m getting scammed too?
OK, so in my opinion I am NOT legally liable for the copywriter’s failure in this situation.
But that brings us to the next question…
What is the right and ethical thing to do?
Although I am someone who believes in absolute truth, and a clear distinction between right and wrong… the realm of ethics can still be grey at times.
I’ve tried to put myself in the customer’s shoes.
If I were him, I probably would have written the same email to me.
I’ve been a victim of scams in the past, so I’m familiar with what he is feeling. It’s one of the worst feelings that the pallet of human emotions can paint. Anger, frustration, regret, self-loathing… all rolled into one. The only way out of it is to go through the grief cycle, and reach a point of acceptance.
From the look of my dear reader’s emails, he’s gone through the denial and anger stages, and has now come around to the bargaining stage. Like I said, I’d be bargaining too.
I see this from two perspectives… justice, and compassion.
From the justice standpoint, I believe it would not be right for me to give him the refund out of my own pocket. Would justice be served by this? No.
Now… IF I had been paid a commission, I do think partial justice could be served if I refunded that commission to the customer. But in this case, there is no commission to speak of.
From a compassion standpoint, I’d love to help out my reader.
If we were talking about a much smaller dollar amount, I probably would have just offered to pay for it (or more likely… I wouldn’t have gotten an email about it in the first place). But $1344 is a decent chunk of change.
We all know the golden rule: do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
If it were the other way around, would I want him to pay for my refund out of his pocket? Yes I would, at this moment in time. But after more time has passed, I would most likely come to the conclusion that justice would not be served by an otherwise innocent affiliate paying me out of his own pocket.
In other words, my sense of justice would eventually trump my desire for recompense. (The two are not mutually exclusive. The victim should be paid back in order for justice to be served, but taking the money from the wrong person is not the solution)
So I do not think it is my moral obligation to pay for the customer’s loss…
But I want to know what YOU think!
I told the customer I would post this on my blog, and take my reader’s opinions into consideration.
I want to know:
What would you do in my situation, and why?
I am absolutely willing to pay a full refund to the customer if the arguments in his favor outweigh the arguments against.
I wish I could just err on the side of compassion, but obviously such a precedent could open me up to a lot of headaches and abuse due to other customers taking advantage of my leniency. If that is the outcome, then I will probably change some things about how I run my business.
Post your comments below. Please do not “trash” me OR the customer or even the copywriter. That’s not the point of this. At the same time I am not necessarily looking for support. I want your honest opinion, even if you are not on my side.
Obviously this is not something that needed to be made public, but I am doing so because I think we can have a good constructive conversation. This is an important topic that affects all Internet marketers. So let us know what you think.
Thanks for your input!
UPDATE: I’ve now posted the conclusion to this saga here:
Hello Eric, I don’t know you personally, I have been following you for a three years. You were always honest. You may recommend products but you also said if you don’t have the money do not spend it. There are no guarantees. I honestly think you do not owe this person a penny. Eric please do not change the way you run your business. I read every thing and it sounds like he was happy with every thing. I think there is something missing. I do not think you are responsible too any one or any thing. It is my opinion that you do not have to pay any thing to any one. I am giving you my honest opinion.
Hi Eric,
For the moment,let us forget whether you are liable to pay him or not, legally or morally.
What I see here, is that your readers’loyalty and trust is so deep, that, on your recommendation, this reader has invested this “decent chunk of change”.
This has got and will get a fair degree of publicity on the net, and you are in a position of liability. Convert this liability into an asset.
How? If you pay him off, think of the goodwill you will earn amongst your followers.Your goodwill will rise to a next level. This reader will definitely talk to his fans and friends who in turn will become your fans also.Pay him off Eric! This will be a small investment for a good amount of good publicity. Anyway,we do have budget for Public relations.This will be your best earner.
However, that, this does not happen in the future is what you have to ensure. So,make sure that when you recommend someone in the future,
you add those extra words, about not being responsible and liable and whatever.
Whilst I sympathize with the person who lost the money, I think it is primarily his fault for parting with the money before seeing the result. If you were to reimburse him out of your own pocket this would create a precedent which many others in similar situations would use to claim against referrers. In my opinion, it is not a good idea to do this unless a Court orders you to do so.
However it illustrates the importance of having it clearly stated whenever you make a recommendation (whether on your website, in a blog, in an eMail or whatever) that you accept no responsibility if the recipient of the recommendation is disatisfied with whatever or whoever you are recommending.
Hi Eric, What on earth is the fuss about? I have been scammed a couple of times and lost money but it never entered my head to blame the affiliate who recommended it. On one occasion I asked the affiliate to pressure the seller to make the refund promised but he did nothing and didn’t respond to me. In the end, he (a supposed “guru”) suffered as I have let many people know of his unreliability.
I think your customer should get back to his credit card supplier if, as it appears, he used his credit card via paypal. Most majors will refund due to non delivery or scams, they simply redebit the receiver of the money. Not sure of their attitude if they paid Paypal but they can charge back to Paypal just as easily as to anyone else who received the funds.
These are factors that all buyers on the internet should take into account when dealing with strangers. The last person responsible for a loss is the recommender, provided the recommendation is given in good faith as was yours.
I too feel for the purchaser but they say you have to pay for your experience. This experience may well make him more aware of HIS obligations in a transaction and, in the long run, save him much more than his present loss.
My grand daughter got scammed by paying 2 weeks rent in advance for a holiday apartment in New York. The money was paid to a scammer. Her attitude was remarkable. First the tears at losing money she had worked hard for. After the tears “I should only have paid a deposit so it was my own fault. But I’ll know better in future” Great response from a 20 year old and one the customer should reflect on.
Eric, Eric,
For all the good you do, here you are in hot water again.
Firstly, you gave your recommendation in good faith and according to your own experience with Mr. [redacted]’s work. Secondly, you did not make an affiliate commission on the transaction.
Yes the customer has been duped and it is unfair, but the problem is between the writer and the customer to work out.
Morally and ethically, it would be great if you could try and reach the writer and get him to *do the right thing* and refund the customer — Adding that your reputation and business have been subsequently stained due to the writer’s handling of this.
Many of us — your followers — know you to be an UPRIGHT person and you never skunk anyone!
This is one of those unfortunate events that make some of us thankful we are not in the public as you are in this Internet business.
Having a web presence opens folks up to all kinds of unpleasant and hurtful situations; it sometimes brings out the worst of humanity…I mean some people get really, really ugly online.
Perhaps the writer can accommodate the buyer with an alternative product of equal value? He needs to do SOMETHING for that unfortunate buyer, B/C $1344 is a LARGE amount. — But YOU do not owe it.
Most Sincerely,
A.
Eric,Don,t you dare Pay the victim due to a third party scammer.What ever happened to buyer beware quote.The scammer should be sued by the victim. your supporters have given you an accurate summary on this situation.
Donald
First, the legal part. You are not responsible for refunding this person. One person is never responsible for the actions/inactions of another person. A simple case of buyer beware.
Second, the ethical part. Successful people who take it upon themselves to make recommendations should show some compassion for the person who spent his hard earned money based on those recommendations. I will leave whatever you decide about being compassionate up to you. Personally, I would not take full responsibility but would try to come to some sort of compromise.
Legally you are not responsible but morally you did recommend this person. I would find a common ground to repay some of the loss. If I recommend someone to my followers and that person screws one of my followers I would be ticked and hurt. Find a middle ground and you will both sleep better.
Eric, I also feel sorry for the guy being scammed the way he was. You recommend [redacted] in good faith and so there fore [redacted] is responsible, the fact that the person paid and didnt receive the goods is for him a hard lesson but it is his lesson NO you are not liable. Wishing you all the best.
Hi Eric,
this is quite an interesting story. Of course is that guy looking for every opportunity to get his money back. So would we, wouldn’t we?
However, I don’t think that you are responsible for a business transaction between two other people. How could you possibly have controlled what was going on between those two?
Your recommendation was done in good faith, nothing else. Things can change within a period of time. Consequently, it is always the buyer’s responsibility to check if everything is fine, and if he is comfortable with the conditions provided.
Anyway, I can’t understand why he paid him in full before he was satisfied with the product in the first place.
Eric,
I to have a decent email list of loyal subscribers.
I recently did an “Adswap” with a rather shady dude not checking hist credentials. I received several complaints from this guy. So, I wrote him and basically told him to make things right.
I hate to put some influence out there but the “IM”/Bizop niche is a very small world and once I start sending the word out that he screwed my subscribers it would spread.
I treat my list with the up most integrity and respect now.
Even more so, after going through List Control.
The guy may have been up front with you and give you a quality service.
But, you also have a email list of 50k+ and have a loyal following of beginning Internet Marketers who trust your decisions.
(Above is the Responsibility part to me.)
The fact is, we sell information in this business.
People rely on what we say and do to make choices to pull out their wallets and expect to get some return on their investment.
On the other hand…
We all know about returns and how some people get their taste of something they really can’t afford and return high ticket items.
I see that the copywriter tried to communicate with this guy. He also told him that this was a PLR and that conversion would be low due to competition.
And I know how you can sell a PLR to a bunch of beginners and it get flooded with Clickbank products.
Couple of my list members subscribed to you via recommendation and bought your Forex trading PLR and used the web designer you recommended.
They came to me complaining why it wasn’t selling once they placed it on Clickbank.
I had to tell them that there is more to it than just placing the site up there and then showed them the 20 + Forex trading products with zero gravity.
All of which, have the same design and video player with similar adcopy.
I volunteered consulting to help them with their own product and helped them with design.
But, also I told them there is no Easy Button in Internet Marketing. Selling a product takes time and promotion. You want to send traffic to your offer and check the conversion.
If this guy did not have any traffic then there would be no sure fire way to test conversion rates with paid adcopy to see if it works.
Plus, the others that got screwed by the adswap with that other guy.
I refunded partial money and ended up giving some of my product to them with a free consultation.
In summary, Eric I think what you do for beginners is awesome and take a lot of time.
I look to you as an authority figure for beginner Internet Marketers.
(I usually refer people to your courses who really need a ton of hand holding.)
I think to save face, you could give a partial refund or even write a adcopy for them.
(I have seen some of your adcopy and it is worth way more than what this other guys charges.)
But, I think the best caveat to readers on PLR, is the fact that the market for those get flooded a lot.
The best thing is to use it for content to another product or revamp it and add features to the software to give it more of a edge on competition. IMHO
I think if you compensated this reader, you would not only gain more respect from your list. But, you would show them your sincerity in their economic development online.
Eric you are the man!
Shane Hale
http://www.CashFlowNinja.com
Dear Eric,
I think we should all take responsibilities for our own actions.
You made a recommendation on your blog and the reader took it. From the moment that he made a decision to follow your recommendation it became his responsibility.
We should always be aware that services especially creative services can never be guaranteed. Sometimes people can deliver excellent services sometimes it can be a total disaster. Performance is affected by so many factors that can either increase or decrease the efficiency of one’s performance.
I feel that you cannot be held responsible for the poor performance of your recommended copywriter. It is my opinion that you don’t have to refund the money of the reader but you can offer to mediate to come to an acceptable solution to both parties.
Here is something for the reader to think about: Had he made $ 1 Million or lots of money with your recommendation would he have given you your due reward or share of the money (because it was your responsibility after all that made him money)?
Suggestion: Maybe you can include a disclaimer about your recommendations.
The golden rule ‘Buyer Beware’ is known world wide. Dragutin should never have paid in full up front, you only do that when you physically have possession of the product or service at the time of purchase.Eric you are no way responsible for a third party’s actions.If you want to reach out to him and see if a mutual agreement could be settled upon that’s your choice. We as marketers should do what ever we can to provide customer satisfaction,which is sometimes impossible.I know you will do the right thing. This is my humble opinion.
Eric,
You are not obligated at all to refund the money. I do not know how old this gentleman is but a major lesson in life itself is,”You live and learn.” Myself personally,for that amount of money,I would have done a lot more research on the copywriter until no more could be done. I would of had to be 100% satisfied before I took equity out on my already maxed out card. If you pay him anything at all,he just may think he can do this at any time he realizes he made a mistake. You are completely right Eric. DO NOT PAY ANYTHING AT ALL. Let him work it out with the person he joined in contract with.
Eric, it is apparent that you have created quite a stir in the online universe with this discussion. As pointed out, bad business experiences are part of having a business. It is certainly hard to see how you have any financial responsibility in this case. As one writer said, you could pay the demand in the interests of good PR. However, the question is: how much reputational damage could be done if you do not pay. Since you have such an impeccable reputation, I doubt much.
One writer suggested, I believe, that you intercede with the copywriter to point out the damage HE is creating to his business, and how it would be in HIS best business interest to refund the amount, and learn from it. He needs to have a contract to protect himself, too, in the future.
As previously suggested, it would not hurt to ask the customer what he feels would actually be fair of you, considering you 1) had a legitimate basis to make your recommendation 2) you cannot control what the copywriter does in his business 3) you received no compensation at all from the copywriter. If he really thought about it, I suspect he will come to the conclusion that you are not obligated in any way. You are, rather, helping him to clarify his thoughts. And then, he can trash the copywriter in all sorts of ways.
Before doing so, he might point this out to the copywriter, and ask how much business does he ( the copywriter) want to lose. Remember, a satisfied customer might tell one or two people, but a po’d customer will tell ten or more!
Hi Eric,
I agree with many of your supporters, you are NOT responsible for this person’s disappointment in what he was expecting. I can see that he has tried to reason with the copywriter and failed and I see that he has attempted to get a refund from the other sources. Now it looks like he is trying a last ditch effort hoping that you will give him a refund. I have tried lots of plans on the Internet and many were not what I expected but I would never go after someone who was trying to help me by recommending something. You are not legally or morally responsible.
I do not believe that you are legally liable. However, ethically, if it were me, I would try and contact the other party and resolve it. I might even offer some personal coaching to help him regain his loss. But that is just me and what I would hope someone would do for me. Do you have to do that? Of course not. But from my followings of you, I think that you tend to follow the high road and will find a way to help the guy without doing it financially. And in return, I would hope that he would write you one really, glowing testimonial.
The fact that you had used this writer yourself and obtained satisfactory results is what counts here. You recommended someone who you had used in the past and would use in the future if you needed to have something else written.
The complainant would not expect to pay you anything if the letter produced had been worth double what he paid so there is no reason for you to pay the difference. In fact he may just be too fussy about what he wants.
Eric,
I am not a lawyer and am not giving legal advice. You are probably not legally responsible, as far as I know, however you might consider offering the poor guy something of equal value from your store of info products, or even write him a sales letter. You cannot help what happened between 2 third parties. Even though not obligated, you can offer to help in some way. That is how I would probably handle it.
Wolf
First question — “Am I liable” — means would a judge in a court say I have to pay. No. A court would find for you, not against you.
Second question — “Is it moral not to pay” — depends on what set of moral laws you subscribe to. If YOU say it’s immoral not to pay, then under YOUR moral code it is immoral not to pay.
Third question — “What shall I do?” — is the key question. Try to use the situation to create new value that was not there before. E.g. suggest to Dragutin that you want to help him out and therefore you will (without charge to him) make him an affiliate of one of your most expensive products and will credit him 100% of the sales proceeds on his first $1344 of sales. It costs you nothing, and it gives him a free way to come out whole and then keep on earning money (at the standard affiliate commission, after he has collected his $1,344).
Hello Eric,
You wrote a very thorough and thoughtful post. I believe you covered it all, and that most readers are in agreement that you are not liable.
Now, If I recommend a restaurant based on my great experience at that restaurant, and someone acts on my recommendation, goes there and ends up with food poisoning, am I liable? I think not!
But I would now reconsider ANY recommendations on my part. I guess I need a disclaimer for my recommendations!!! Perhaps a website dedicated to disclaimers! I’ll just have a link at all my other sites pointing to my “disclaimer” site. Boy what a great idea! OH OH, wait a minute…now I’ll need a disclaimer for my disclaimer site. It will never end.
I do not feel you are responsible for the agreement between two people that you had no personal or financial interst in. What is being asked for compares to us asking anyone who refers a product or service to be liable for a refund if we are unhappy. Anyone who endorses a product -athletes and actors are always giving endorsements – would be then liable. We are all grownups making our own decisions and must protect ourselves from the wolves out there – du diligence is needed. I would not refund the money to him – helping him find the right action steps to take to get his money back would be my suggestion.
It is a great lesson for all of us to learn and be aware of. Thank You for allowing us to voice our opinions and learn from this for ourselves.
Mary
No.
1. Testimonials are not a guarantee.
2. Dangerous legal precedent. Maybe I should pay his bill because I receive your newsletter?
To my mind you are absolutely not responsible to refund him. Copy writers should in any case only be paid in full once the work has been delivered.
If I act upon a recommendation, it is still MY duty to proceed with caution.
What would I do if I’m “walking in your moccasins”? I would certainly not pay
That is a great solution.
It’s all been said, not your fault.
I agree with the majority, that you don’t owe this man the amount he is asking. It’s hard for me to understand why he’s not going after the copywriter; after all, that’s the person who failed to fulfill his part of the agreement (if indeed there was one). Good will is one thing, but paying for someone else’s mistake, i.e. paying a large sum before a satisfactory product is produced, should not be expected.
Are you responsible? No!!. A refund would be a nice gesture, but would set a dangerous precedent. How about this: 1. Show him the responses you have gotten saying you aren’t responsible. 2. Offer him one of your products as a consolation. It won’t really cost you anything and it should create some good will.
Eric, You are not legally responsible however, your recomendation carried considerable weight. Customer is always responsible for due diligence. You should put that in your terms anytime you recommend someone or a company. If it were me, I would ask the guy if you could provide him with some of your best products to help him make up for the loss. That is what I would do. Making a cash payment to him goes too far and I would not pay him. I bet this can be worked out.
One other thing you might offer, is to send the copywriter a personal email requesting that he make it right with the customer. Or you will make it well known to the internet world and ruin his reputation and business. Play hardball with the copywriter. Say something like this: You have 24 hours to re-imburse Mr. X. If Mr. X has not received payment, I will personally make sure that your copywriting days on the internet are over. What you did cannot be tolerated. I will not allow my name to be dragged through the mud.. You got the customer because of my recommendation and you did him dirty. Make it right to him or else. You have 24 hours!
I have used this tactic before and did get my money back within the 24 hour period. He had done the same thing to numerous people but nobody else got their money back. I was the only one. I took control of the situation and made it happen. He knew I meant what I said. No more Mr.
Nice Guy with this copywriter. Give him a sleepless night and he will pay!
Eric,
IMHO, you’re not liable, however if paying the person the $1344 can be converted into good publicity valued at more than that in profits to you then it may be worth it.
I don’t see any ethical or legal reason (not a lawyer) for you to be liable here. If you pay out, it would be for the business benefit you would receive by acting in beyond good faith measures.
If a friend tells me to dine at a restaurant and I get sick from their food, do I ask my friend for punitive damages? No.
If I am referred by a doctor to a specialist, and that specialist ends up causing physical harm through malpractice, do I sue the referring GP? No.
If I refer a product or service, for no financial benefit to me, which I do often, do I deserve to be sued by someone who had a bad experience with the same product or service I had an excellent experience with? No.
The complainant here has a bone to pick with the person who ripped him off. You acted in good faith by revoking your endorsement of that person. If it was an affiliate arrangement for which you were remunerated directly, then I’d say you owe the poor bloke his dough. According to the write up above, that is not the case.
To that extent, I suggest looking at what the ROI is for paying it out, and if it surpasses not only the $1344, but the pain of copy cat complainants, then it may be worth it. Again, I don’t feel you’re liable from the description of the issue.
Been a follower for a couple years, and always appreciated the value in your blog and newsletters.
Wishing you the best.
Eric,
Thanks for bringing an important issue to light, which affects us all—“buyer beware.” Of course, you are not liable for the dealings of others, and I appreciate your compassion and sense of justice that leads you to at least try to reason the problem out.
This points us to the fact that all our dealings online or elsewhere need to be honorable and above reproach, and when we make mistakes in judgment (i.e., trusting an untrustworthy person), we need to forgive ourselves (and others) and move on to provide even wiser and better solutions and products.
Everyone sees you as a kind of guru. I think you want that too.
As such, they think that WHATEVER you recommend, is safe.
Just ask yourself, what would happen if with everything you would say: I recommend this company, but it is totally your problem if they are not dependable.
How many would still follow your recommendations? And what would that do to your reputation?
And then (and I am not saying at ALL that you don’t research them!) how sure are you actually of the companies/people you recommend?
Is there insurance for this kind of thing?
Hi Eric
You aren’t responsible.
To remind Dragutin, everytime I have listened to Eric recommend someone’s services/product he always clearly states that he has had a good experience with the person/product but we must check out his recommendations first before we use their services.
So the responsibility lies with us to do our own duediligence and work out if Eric’s recommendation works well for us and not just blindly trust what he says.
I understand the compassion issue i.e. you feel for Dragutin but please don’t pay the compensation (this is the easy option). It isn’t your fault and it sets a president going forward that anyone can make a claim and get paid even if they acted irresponsibly.
The only thing you can do in this circumstance Eric is to go to the copywriter in question and impress upon them that you recommended their services in good faith, they need to consider whether there is some compensation due to Dragutin otherwise you can no longer recommend their services and will publically state this on your website. If the copy writer isn’t bothered about the impact to their reputation when you do this then it isn’t your problem.
I hope this helps.
Isha
You are not in a binding, legal contract with this individual, Mr. [redacted] is, even if you endorsed this person it dosn’t make you liable. I would say in good faith and to keep this customer I would offer a 20% credit, small price to pay. Then go after Mr. [redacted] for slander and dragging you down with him. The fact as well, is that you removed him at the first sign of trouble says that you have acted in good faith as not to lead others down this path. You can also offer to write one for him.
Hi Eric,
Do you and our readers really think that [redacted] did NOT deliver ? Is a refund justified.
Eric, I consider you a trustworthy person.If you recommend a service/product, I would take it seriously and will not bother to verify.If something goes wrong, of course I will be annoyed with you but I will not hurl the whole blame on you.Here, your reputation is at stake. If [redacted] has not delivered a reasonable standard of service, he should rightly make a full refund or at least partially. If this the case, it will not hurt to offer Dragutin an apology or some gift. That’s what I will do.
Thank you once again ! I appreciate the good things you are doing for us.Best Regards.
Eric:
I don’t think you have to pay the reader for this. He did not have to use the resource you suggested in the first place. You merely suggested the one you used for your project, because he did a good job for you. It’s not your fault if the person hired to do the job failed to do the job for this reader. I might suggest not naming any resources to future customers or merely suggesting companies such as Elance or similar outsourcing companies. The future customer would have a wide choice of resources to pick. You should not be liable for this.
By the way, I’ve never paid you or anyone you referred a cent, and I feel that you owe me $1399. Since its less than $1400, I think you’ll pay.
In a sense, this buyer has gotten his “ounce of flesh” just in the negative light that has been placed on this copywriter. Anyone searching his name from now on is going to see this discussion most likely.
This is a case for Small Claims Court. The buyer might not get his money back, but he can get a judgment and that is an annoyance too.
Lastly, I agree that personally if I had made a commission, I would have passed that on to the buyer…just to meet my own ethical standard.
I know how bad the guy feels about being ripped off, I think most everyone who uses the internet at all has experienced it.
You certainly have an obligation to express your apologies and regret, (which I suspect you have already done).
This does raise some interesting legal/ethical questions though. A lot would depend on the language used in your endorsement or promotion of his services.
For instance, if you said “he will write a killer sales page for you just like he did for me!”, or “you won’t find a better copywriter for the money!”, then you essentially guaranteed satisfaction.
If I were you, I would not refund his money, but may offer to do some copywriting for free or a deeply discounted rate, or perhaps a comp copy of one of your paid products.
I would also spend a lot of time letting my subscribers know about the potential damages to your reputation if an endorsed product or service goes bad. It sure has given me something to think about!
I too am tired of empty promises and not making a cent of all these products that make it so easy to make money. It seems that there is one step or two steps that they are omitting. If I ever make money. My guidelines would be . Here are the absolue steps to follow my guidelines and if you do, then yes you will make money. I cannot promise you how much as the rest remains with you. Steps and videos to show them click here and do that..next step..next video until success. Also pls write me to tell me how you made out as I will personally respond. I am looking for one HONEST GOD fearing person who can deliver. Having said that, I AM YET TO MEET HER OR HIM. I have spent thousands of dollars in vain.
You as they say are “between the Rock and Hard place”, You totally are not responsible at all, but because you did recommend him, even so he did a good job for you, you did not check him out to see how others felt, so in order to maintain your reputation and not let it be impacted, you may want to give him the money and let this be a lesson for you as well to make sure you check someone out before recommending them, I run a small business and have had to suck it up and pay when I knew they were dead wrong, but word gets out and guess what I get it back ten fold. Hope this helps
I don’t believe you are liable. I am sorry Dragutin was scammed, but unless you guaranteed Mr. [redacted]’s work, this transaction is wholly between Mr. [redacted] and Dragutin.
I have bought things on recommendations that have been worthless or not worked out: everything from buying expensive products at live events to trying out/signing up for something touted by a friend (who may or may not get a kickback for the referral). Not once have I gone back to the “recommend-er” for a refund or even considered it.
I generally try to “make things right” by sending the offended party something, even a small token with my regrets for their bad experience. I wouldn’t take responsibility, but I would do this to show compassion and concern for what happened.
None of us can be responsible for another’s actions, which is, I think, what Dragutin is asking you to do. You made your recommendation in good faith and rescinded that recommendation after learning Mr. [redacted]’s service to others wasn’t what you had experienced.
Finally, I’ve heard gurus say one should always “test” new freelancers with small, inexpensive tasks first. If $1344 is more than one can bear to lose (understandable), then give the new person a $20 or $50 job first. I’m sure Dragutin could write a report or an ebook on newbie outsourcing mistakes (and monetize it) now!
Eric, like the other commenters I feel that you are NOT responsible. If a friend recommends a restaurant to you and you go there and have a terrible meal you you expect your friend to reimburse the price of your meal? NO! I am sorry that this person got scammed (been there myself) but we are all responsible for our own decisions. $1300 is a lot of money and if you want to help him as one of your customers you might offer him one of your products as a token of compassion, but, you are not required to do so.
Just my opinion.
Phil
I rather think any lawyer ould spit out his sunflower seeds into his spitoon, pull down on his suspenders and mutter …
‘caveat emptor. That’ll be $175.00’
I definitely see no responsibility in this matter on your part. You recommended this person in good faith, since you had a positive experience with him and you would have no way of knowing he would act irresponsibily with someone else. Also you had no part in the contract that this person made with the copywriter. This could have been the reason for the messup – no clear contract of the client’s expectations. Also, usually one does not pay up front (except perhaps a deposit) for services such as those until you have received the merchandise or a sample of it. The 45 day limit with PayPal is also reasonable. Perhaps the client should have checked first to see if [redacted] was registered with BBB. And BBB only will say – if they have had complaints against the Company. I think it’s ridiculous that you should have to pay anything in this instance. You received no money for your recommendation. I’m sorry he feels he was scammed. But it was definitely not by you. Then there is that legal expression “let the buyer beware”. I do not think that you are responsible nor are you liable for the money he spent. I think he’s looking for someone to blame and has tried everyone else involved. The issue is not yours to deal with. Carry on with the wonderful work you are giving us for free. I thank you and appreciate all your GOOD and GENEROUS time and information. Thanks again. Lucy
Eric, As usual I seem to be the odd man out. I think that the single most important consideration is what you consider your reputation and your word to be worth. The fact that you did not get paid is really irrelevant, as it was your intention to get paid when you made the recommendation. The fact that you are willing to discuss this issue publicly says a great deal for your character, as will the way you handle the resolution of it. Having watched many internet gurus demonstrate how they pick a product at random and start promoting it, I think it is about time that the responsibility begins to shift. Whether or not you have a legal responsibility is something every lawyer would argue based on who was paying him. Whether you have a moral responsibility is something only you can decide. The solution could be as simple as helping your reader get his sales letter written to his satisfaction. That would be a win-win resolution, and I can guarantee that the credibility you would receive would far outweigh the time and/or money involved. Thank you for publicizing this issue… from a long time reader.
Dear Eric,
I truly believe that you are an honest and ethical online marketer. The fact that you have handled this situation open and honestly proves this to me.
As much as I sympathize with the complainant, would it be any different if this product was advertised during a TV spot on Oprah?
Would Oprah then be liable after describing a positive result from a vendor ( therefore an endorsement of good service ) to then later find out that the vendor was inconsistent in quality and had ripped off clients?
The answer is No!, and this is why; although the claimant can say that he followed Oprah’s recommendations the truth is that this cannot be proved. Especially since the vendor has other avenues of service promotion. If the vendor was exclusively marketed on your site (or Oprah’s show for that matter) then duty of care is implied. However, since you were not compensated for the transaction, there remains no trail of evidence that he click on your affiliate link in the first place.
I’ve been ripped off too and it hurts, I plan to write about that in my own new (yet established) blog.
I feel for the guy, I really do. But to compensate him out of your pocket without full justification will only invite others to attempt the same strategy to be compensated.
They will all come out of the woodwork as presentence may be set. Also, it may be considered that you admit culpability by doing so.
My advice is to assist the claimant by offering an alternative solution. Perhaps you have a copywriter friend in need of free promotion that could help here?
Thanks for the opportunity to speak.
Cheers,
Scott
With your experience – write a series of letters for him on the same topic that the copywriter was to have done…and call it a day. Your integrity as an online marketer and mentor far exceeds the issue and it would be my contention that replacing the promised product will suffice.
Eric…
First; I appreciate your tips, even though I cannot say I actually follow them all. I am not really pushing for any big Internet marketing endeavors, so I do not do many things that you do. But, the info and advice is well received, and I admire and respect your experience and expertise. Thanks!
Your story here about the affiliate liabilities does bring up a very interesting set of questions. And, I do not think there is a clear-cut set of answers yet.
On one hand, our society seems to want anyone-in-the-chain to be accountable; we see evidence of that in many news stories and even in the political arena. It is a bit scary, actually; seems folks want to blame others for their own ignorance or inabilities.
On the other hand, how far should the chain-of-accountability be allowed to extend?
If, as others here allude to, everyone who ever promoted or advertised or otherwise sponsored something, was held fully accountable for knowing and telling the-whole-truth-and-nothing-but-the-truth…we would have no more TV, radio, Internet, magazine or other advertisements. Because we all know we are continuously being lied to by the mass media machine.
All of us are accountable for what we do; so I know some might say that because you recommended (and I am sure that word needs clear defining) something, or someone; that you should have known all there was to know.
I am sure you wish you DID know everything before-hand; then this would not have happened!
If YOU have to pay, I would say all advertisers have to pay, too.
If you somehow get forced into paying for this, it will be a sad and scary day for all of us who have even dabbled in affiliate marketing and similar online endeavors.
I don’t see how or why you should be forced to pay; you acted in good faith and honesty; if that does not trump the other side, we are in for a rough ride ahead! Good luck…keep us posted!
Eric,
A recommendation is a person’s opinion that something is good.
The person does not work for you therefore he is not an agent, making you liable for his actions.
You know someone who jumped out a 5 story building who said it was a great experience and based on their positive review you “recommended it,” a person would have to use their common sense to know jumping out a 5 story building most times is not going to result in feeling good.
In business smart folks have learned “Caeveat Emptor”, let the buyer beware.
If you do not have a contract you are not responsible.
If you were paid to provide a “recommendation” you still are not responsible for work done without your knowledge or supervision.
I write this knowing you have the big bucks to hire an attorney firm to deal with this guy if he sues.
If he sues and loses the cases he has to pay your legal bills.
He needs to sues the person he paid the money to whether he registered with BBB or not. If he paid for services he didn’t receive then small claims court judge will look at the evidence and award him a verdict. Once he gets the verdict then he plan to attach whatever he can get his hands on, because guys that burn people like this usually don’t like to pay even even if there is a judgment against them.
Locate the property, get the constable and go get what belongs to you from what ever property you can find to sell.
It is hard to do but take it easy don’t sweat too hard. Oh and be careful who you put up.