Yesterday I received an email from a reader who had hired a copywriter based on my recommendation in late 2009.
Unfortunately, he was not happy with the sales letter he received from the copywriter, and the copywriter allegedly did not complete the work he had been paid to do.
About seven weeks ago, the reader wrote to me about his negative experience with this copywriter. It was the second complaint I had received from readers regarding this copywriter, and I had also received an additional warning from a fellow marketer.
At that point, I pulled my endorsement of the copywriter, and made it clear on my website that I am no longer recommending him.
Now yesterday I received another email from the reader…
Hi Eric,
I hope you are well.
Just to let you know I contacted BBB.org, PayPal and my credit card company.
The business of [redacted] is not registered with BBB.org.
The complaint with PayPal can only be filed within 45 days from the date of payment and that period is exceeded due to [redacted] procrastination and the story telling.
My credit card company is not able to provide the refund of $1344 I paid to [redacted] for the letters he never wrote as there is an involvement from PayPal between them and the vendor.
I acted on your recommendation to choose services of [redacted] as you described him trustworthy and reliable.
From all people and businesses who gave testimonials on his web site only one responded on my enquiry.
The others simply ignored my enquiry and some of the have URL error.
I do not want to lose $1344 USD for nothing as I acted in full honesty and transparency and am asking you to provide me with the full refund.
Hope to hear from you soon.
Kind regards
Dragutin
As you’ve seen, the reader is asking me to compensate him for the payment he made to the copywriter.
I should mention that I do appreciate his polite tone. If he had sent a “flame” I wouldn’t be featuring it here.
I asked him for some additional information, and here is a copy of his communications with the copywriter:
PDF of email correspondence [redacted]
So there are really two questions at stake here…
1) Am I legally liable for the products I endorse or promote as an affiliate?
2) What is the right and ethical thing to do?
The ramifications are very significant, because the answers to these questions affect not only this situation but also…
– Everything I endorse/promote.
– Everyone who endorses anything or promotes something as an affiliate.
This is why the Internet marketing world was in a tizzy last December when the FTC rolled out their new guidelines for endorsements and testimonials.
So let’s answer the first question, as it applies to this situation:
Am I legally liable?
According to the FTC, endorsers may be liable for false or unsubstantiated claims made in an endorsement, or for failure to disclose material connections between the advertiser and endorsers.
Let’s talk about false or unsubstantiated claims.
If I had blindly promoted the product/service without checking it out first (as many affiliates do in this industry, and as I have done in the past on occasion), then I believe I might bear liability if my claims did not match up to the product. Let that be a word of warning to all affiliate marketers: You ARE responsible for what you say/write.
However, in this case I was speaking from first-hand experience. I had actually paid this copywriter $197 to write a sales letter for me, and I felt that the product I received was a good value for the amount that I had paid.
Therefore, my claim was substantiated, and I made the recommendation in good faith that the copywriter would provide similar value for other customers.
Now let’s talk about disclosing material connections.
I initially wrote my recommendation in October of 2009, which was prior to the new FTC guidelines going into effect.
When the new guidelines went into effect on December 1st, I added an “Affiliate & Material Connection Statement” to my website, which I believe satisfies this requirement. If I am shown otherwise, then I might need to get more aggressive about disclosing material/affiliate relationships.
In this particular case, I never did get paid an affiliate commission for the sale in question. So I’m not sure how that affects the material connection from a legal standpoint. Am I still an affiliate if I’m getting scammed too?
OK, so in my opinion I am NOT legally liable for the copywriter’s failure in this situation.
But that brings us to the next question…
What is the right and ethical thing to do?
Although I am someone who believes in absolute truth, and a clear distinction between right and wrong… the realm of ethics can still be grey at times.
I’ve tried to put myself in the customer’s shoes.
If I were him, I probably would have written the same email to me.
I’ve been a victim of scams in the past, so I’m familiar with what he is feeling. It’s one of the worst feelings that the pallet of human emotions can paint. Anger, frustration, regret, self-loathing… all rolled into one. The only way out of it is to go through the grief cycle, and reach a point of acceptance.
From the look of my dear reader’s emails, he’s gone through the denial and anger stages, and has now come around to the bargaining stage. Like I said, I’d be bargaining too.
I see this from two perspectives… justice, and compassion.
From the justice standpoint, I believe it would not be right for me to give him the refund out of my own pocket. Would justice be served by this? No.
Now… IF I had been paid a commission, I do think partial justice could be served if I refunded that commission to the customer. But in this case, there is no commission to speak of.
From a compassion standpoint, I’d love to help out my reader.
If we were talking about a much smaller dollar amount, I probably would have just offered to pay for it (or more likely… I wouldn’t have gotten an email about it in the first place). But $1344 is a decent chunk of change.
We all know the golden rule: do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
If it were the other way around, would I want him to pay for my refund out of his pocket? Yes I would, at this moment in time. But after more time has passed, I would most likely come to the conclusion that justice would not be served by an otherwise innocent affiliate paying me out of his own pocket.
In other words, my sense of justice would eventually trump my desire for recompense. (The two are not mutually exclusive. The victim should be paid back in order for justice to be served, but taking the money from the wrong person is not the solution)
So I do not think it is my moral obligation to pay for the customer’s loss…
But I want to know what YOU think!
I told the customer I would post this on my blog, and take my reader’s opinions into consideration.
I want to know:
What would you do in my situation, and why?
I am absolutely willing to pay a full refund to the customer if the arguments in his favor outweigh the arguments against.
I wish I could just err on the side of compassion, but obviously such a precedent could open me up to a lot of headaches and abuse due to other customers taking advantage of my leniency. If that is the outcome, then I will probably change some things about how I run my business.
Post your comments below. Please do not “trash” me OR the customer or even the copywriter. That’s not the point of this. At the same time I am not necessarily looking for support. I want your honest opinion, even if you are not on my side.
Obviously this is not something that needed to be made public, but I am doing so because I think we can have a good constructive conversation. This is an important topic that affects all Internet marketers. So let us know what you think.
Thanks for your input!
UPDATE: I’ve now posted the conclusion to this saga here:
I personally Don’t have the funds to do purchases. I agree with you that the recipient of the funds should be the one to refund payment. You could refund your percentage of involvement in the transaction, but this probably is not reverent. I wish you good luck in your solution of the endeavor. KEN
Eric,
Let’s say the fellow paid the writer $10,000.00 up front. Would he still want you to reimburse him for all of that. If you feel real bad for the guy, and out of the goodness of your heart, you might offer him 2 or 3 hundred bucks to ease his pain that was really caused by his lack of business acumen, if not his stupidity.
From my reading, it seems that you brokered a deal in which both you (the broker) and the buyer got burned. If that is the case then you certainly do bear some of the burden. If that is the case, I would negotiate a fair settlement with the buyer.
If you did not broker the transaction then you have no LEGAL liability.
Trust, however, is an important asset. We don’t usually become jaded until after our trust is broken. Innocent young people don’t have the street smarts to see through the myriad of potential scams out there. If they can’t trust a self proclaimed expert, and an honest broker, like you, who can they trust?
BY the same token, blind faith in another mere mortal is to ignore your own responsibility to do “due diligence”. Perhaps that should be your next big product. A newbies course on Due Diligence (aka Risk Management).
You acted in good faith……the hamburger I buy from my favorite burger joint may not be good anymore….
A business person needs to understand that no one can control the actions of other suppliers….
He needs to take action against the person he “actually” did the transaction with….legal or otherwise…
I am not an attorney. I am a customer service manager. As I see it the issue lies with the claimant and “he” needs to address the matter with the copywriter. If your recommendation is to be considered a liable factor then all advertising in all media might be considered responsible for products and services recommended. There is no need to try and prove that you are more than generous with providing information at no cost and while your recommendation of the copywriter turned sour has anyone considered why? Maybe the copywriter has a legitimate reason for failing.
Caveat emptor, buyer beware is about all I can say about this. I empathise with both you and the Emailer but at what point does the emailer not take responsibility for his actions and decisions. It was his decision with the information at hand to use this copywriter and unfortunately this time got burned. Next time knowing what he knows now maybe he will act more urgently and decisively and get his money back from the right person
I am sorry you feel this way, it took me a long time to make money as well, over two years and a bankruptcy later I am still hanging on. I have found a way to make money, and there is no shortcuts. I tried for two years to take the shortcut the guru’s sell you on, THEY DON’T WORK!! The only thing that works is HARD WORK. If you are willing to put in the time, you will reap the rewards.
> 1) Am I legally liable for the products I endorse or promote
> as an affiliate?
From what I have read, imo, you have done nothing wrong in this case. It sounds like you have probably already done what you need to do from the typical business stand point.
> 2) What is the right and ethical thing to do?
If it were ME and I am making as much money and selling as many products and services as you apparently are… instead of giving this person cash (and since you also OWN lots of products and services)… I would apologize and sympathize and offer to give him $1344 worth of my products and/or services for FREE that I normally charge for because I truly do want to be helpful. (It is just electrons, if you know what I mean!!) For example, if I sell web hosting or have some kind of a paid monthly members site that he can benefit from, I would offer to give him a free lifetime membership.
If he is not happy with my generous offer for a problem that happened between him and a 3rd party, then at least I know I genuinely tried to help him and I can not help it if he refuses my generosity.
This is the first time I’m posting on you blog…I have one thing to say: I never recommend a fellow that I don’t trust. It eventually has an impact on my reputation of a guy whose most opinions are correct and fair-play. If I were you I give at least a partial refund…just because I was wrong recommending the wrong person.
Hi Eric,
No You are right, you would start a land slide effect that would rumble throughout the internet.
The agreement was not between you and this person. They are barking up the wrong tree.
He needs to direct his case towards the person who they contracted with.
What happened to the Buyer Beware in this transaction.
Just because someone recommends someone else they need to do Due Diligence in all matters of money.
Did they check out his work and any comment on the net. Just Google about anyone and most of the time you’ll get the answer you were looking for. Why would they pay for a project in advance. There are so many places he could of put his project up for bid and would of been able to pick from the cream of the crop…
Okay for now. Eric please keep a stiff upper lip and continue to do the Good Work you have always done.
Your Friend
Don
Hi Eric,
I really feel sorry for poor guy!
Eric I also know that you’re heavily burdened by
this unfortunate issue,but be assured you won’t
be held responsible for the failed transaction
you’d recommended,neither your reputation at stake!!
Don’t ever make a refund even out of compassion,because this is morally wrong & will create a bad precedent and encourage future abuse.
What you can do now to help the victim is try to contact the writer and trash things out.
Good Luck & God Bless,
Mike
I know how the injuried party feels and have found all most every one of these work at home, affliates, and etc to be total scams with the only one making money is the instigator that preys on people’s greed to make money or having to resort to do something quickly to make ends meet. I have lost thousands to these hustlers that provided nothing to match their claims. It is my desire if I get elected and become Governor of my state to put everyone of these hustlers in prison with Bernie Matoff and throw away the key. Eric is different in that he provides information and a service to his subscribers. As a politician, I don’t endorse anyone, because you have no control of what that person does and this questions your judgement by the voters should that person commits fraud, adultry, or child sex crime. No Eric, in this case you were used by the one you endorsed to get endorsements for self gain, but it hurt your reputation.
At the end of the day, if you profit from your affiliations with these people – at the very very least you should compensate that customer with the profit your recieved from being an affiliate of such a shonky business man,
Realisiticaly, just because he didnt screw you around on your first and only dealing with him, what makes you think he didnt just do that to gain your trust so you would advertise for him?
A professional marketer does not affiliate with another company unless they have a proven track record. 1 sales letter for you does not equate to a proven track record.
Bottom line, he screwed someone out of $1344 because of you.
The sad part is you should pay him, but if you do everyone else will be on the bandwagon.
In future check out your affiliates a bit better before staking your own business on it.
If the person has a problem with the copywriter he should getn his money back from the copywriter.You have already fulfilled all yor ethical obligations by not continuing to endorse the copywriter unless at some point you specificaly in writing guaranteed the copywriters work.If that were the case then pay him.You are a successful internet enterpneur who carries a certain amount of implied trust to the buyers of your programs to people who respect the VALUE of your marketing expertise.Obviously more information from the “victim” and you is needed to make a more definitive opinion.
You owe him nothing more than a sincere apology. That this copywriter did a good job for you and not for him is on the copywriter. He should have done his own research, and probably given the copywriter a much smaller, less important project to start with to evaluate for himself if the writer was up to snuff for his needs. “Buyer Beware” should be everyone’s watch-words. We all live and breath by our own opinions, and sometimes life’s lessons get a little expensive. That’s how we all learn. You do not owe him any money. That would be paying him for making a mistake. What would he learn? That he got away with it, and I believe he would do it again and again.
I lost $1,000 last year on months of procrastanation, way past the 30 day return policy. I was told I would have my 10 active websites completed and delivered way before the 30 days were up. I finally did get the products months later.I did not feel the product was worth the investment, but it was to late to ask for a refund. I work in the construction industry. In the construction industry you have to give the customer a 1 year warranty. If, years later, the customer discovers a significant fault that was hidden from plain site, the customer has until 1 year after discovery, and not just the 1 year warranty.
On the internet everything is different. If you wait past your refund date, you are stuck. It’s no one else’s fault but your own. I lost the $1,000 and just chalk it up to experience. To this date, I have not made one penney off of those 10 websites.
Eric, you are not liable legally or morally, in my opinion.
You are not legally liable.
The buyer should have done what you did, and just got one sales letter as a test, for around $197. Payment should have been via escrow, or deposit and full payment on completion. That’s just sensible trading.
I don’t believe you’re ethically liable either. Your recommendation was on the basis of the quality and reliability of the copywriter that YOU had experienced. As you have stated, most affiliates recommend products they have no clue about!
Even though Dragutin is demanding the full cost, he will most likely not expect it.
I suggest you let him know that you are not liable for his loss, as you were not party to specifically what was contracted, nor the price. Therefore you may offer him say 1/3rd of the total, on compassionate grounds only.
Then put some pressure on [redacted] to reimburse Dragutin and also yourself. (Any recovered funds should go to Dragutin – up to the balance.)
“wise as serpents – harmless as doves”
Eric, you are not responsible for any refund for giving a reccomendation for a good job you received from said copywriter, that is strictly between him and the copywriter. I was scammed for $1500.00 and I know the feeling wanting to get a refund from my scammer I just had to suffer the lost. My opinion Erick
Regards
Jack
No, you should not pay the guy. You are not liable in any way as there was never a contract between you and him. It’s an unfortunate experience the guy went through but if anyone is to pay the refund it’s the copywriter who was paid in the first place.
However as a learning point, I suggest you check out a guy before recommending him – even if he’s done a good job for you. In this case he probably did a good job for you, knowing FULLY WELL that he stood a high chance of getting an endorsement from a high profile person like you. So please check the people out before you endorse them. That way you avoid such unwelcome complications.
You are not even remotely responsible to pay this guy anything. He was reaching for the last straw because of his pain but there is no way you have any obligation. He must deal with the loss. Most of us have been in that situation but we would never try to get the money from the one who made a recommendation. That is unthinkable in my mind.
Thanks Eric for sharing your dilemma with us. It does give us a valuable lesson on affiliate liability. And reading the emails to/from [redacted], has brought me thinking: there’s some sad story behind those glittering, credit-card outpouring sales letters!
What happened to Dragutin is indeed quite unfortunate. Yet what he is trying to do to you now is worse. Clearly, he is so desperate and thinks you’re also liable for what was solely his own decision in hiring the copywriter; an act you knew nothing about.
I think if you grant him the “refund”, it’s like the end of rational thinking or the idea of personal responsibility. FTC or no FTC rules, we are supposed to be rational beings and are solely responsible for our own personal (voluntary) decisions or individual acts.
It would have been acceptable for Dragutin to ask for mercy and help from you and others to get back his $$$; to which many I guess would respond positively.
All the best,
Angelina
Obviously if you pay the gentleman the money he has complained of losing, you will open yourself up to every other person who every feels ripped off based on a recommendation you could make, in error, about someone you believe in. Believing in someone is good, but is only an opinion, and that is all you offered, an opinion. It is up to each individual to decide for themselves whether an opinion is accurate, and the only way to gauge that value is to test the weight of that opinion against other markers of indication such as researching other testimonials made by other individuals, and looking at any information that might be available publically through the BBB or other reliable indexes of assurance.
Therefore, to blindly spend 1300 + dollars based on any single expression of faith made in good conscience by a person who had a successful result, and thus made a recommendation, is still an unwise and foolish expenditure which unfortunately leaves the spender short of cash when the result is unsatisfactory. But if my friend said to me, hey I got this business card designed and made for 5 dollars over there at the store on the corner, and so I go there to get the same, there may be a different designer there that day, or the special 5 dollar sale might be over, or they might even do the job, but I don’t like what they did. In the end, my argument is with the people who did the work badly or not at all, not with the person who I met on the street and showed off his new business card. I would be an idiot to think that just because he was proud of his business card, and got it for 5 dollars, that HE should pay me back when the company he bought it from botches up the job.
Don’t Pay Him.
No you are not responsible. Refunding him could open up a can of worms. I think the repercussions would be devastating. It could turn the whole affiliate marketing world upside down. Don’t do it!
Hi Eric: Unfortunately, as far as I can tell I do not believe you to be liable for the monies paid to another vendor. You mentioned in your post that you didn’t receive a commission for this particular sale and that raises another point about liability on your end as well. Sounds like you have also been a victim of this copywriter by not receiving what was owed to you, so maybe finding others in the same boat at yourself and the person who wrote the request for a refund to you should find others that have been ripped off by this copywriter and file a class action lawsuit. I would definately pull your endorsement of this guy, if you haven’t already. I understand that Dragutin is upset about losing that kind of money and so would anyone. According to what you stated, you did what you were supposed to do subsequent to the Dec 1, 2009, FDA roll-out so I do not believe there is any monies owed to Dragutin from you. Legal action should be taken against this copywrite so he can’t do this to any more people. This is a very bad time for many people and unfortunatley, those who are having problems are doing whatever it takes to cover themselves including ripping others who are probably not doing any better than they are.
Hi Eric,
I think that the alarm bells should have started ringing when he was asked for so much money upfront!!!! Nobody pays the full price until they have the goods. he didn’t check him out on elance or whatever where there would have been more up to date expletives on [redacted]. He didn’t control [redacted] by setting a timetable for the work, I’m no expert but I would have thought it should have been done and dusted in 10 days any longer and he should have run screaming to paypal. On that basis he does not merit any financial rebate from you. You made a recomendation based on work that [redacted] did for you, if he did good work for you then you were entitled to make that recommendation. You could refund him as a gesture of goodwill but then that would be setting a dangerous precedent and one that you might want to check the legal implications of first.
Have fun,
Mike
Well what could i say being a tottal newbe> for one this type of thing is upsetting to hear as i,am trying affilate marketing with not much succees yet! In any event i have myself learning from all over the scope of online internet marketing! Say that my be my niche re:Entrepreneurs evolving and the scope of internet marketing! Yea thats it ok no one still this i,am going to keep trying to make this thing work out!Now Eric I think you are a solid stand alone>ie:a internet marketer who can think for himself and as well, the well being of others! If you have supported this guy who did not follow up as “HE HIMSELF SHOULD HAVE” well in my opintion he is the one in contempt of wrong doing and givin the fact that as soon as you found out and looked into it, an sent him proper notice THAT you no longer support him,brother to brother you have done your part! Now as a hole do we as peoplesoftheinternet.com do we let him go on or do we track him in his new id and recincile it?
Well, If you have promoted it on your site and did not put a disclaimer of any kind, you might be legally liable to what ever referral you did.
Ethically, you could tell the person that you recommended the Copywriter based on your good experience with him. So the person who is asking for refund should take up the matter with the Copywriter not you. Do not give in easy for the matter lies between the two.
Eric you are a very nice and VERY Smart Guy! Putting this out into the public will no doubt be a reputation saving grace from something that could get ugly, if Dragutin decides to do a smear campaign on you! But mark this, YOU are in no way responsible, morally, ethically or legally! Look at it this way: –
1: I buy a great product from Big W.
2: I recommend this product and store to you.
3: You go buy this same product from the same store, but it turns out to be a dud!
Now, am I in this case responsible just because I recommend the store and product to you?
No way!!!! Especially since I was not paid to recommend anything to you by the store!! There are then 2 things you can do. You can go back to the store and get the product replaced or you can go get a refund! If neither is made available to you, you then go higher up to the ombudsman or law and try to bargain or sue your way out of it. If nothing works, then you wear the cost!
Your situation is exactly the same as the one I have just described! So to everyone who has suggested that you pay some sort of recompense just to appease this character or for the sake of your reputation, I say STOP WRITING SUCH BS!!! Eric is in no way responsible for anything and Dragutin should come to his senses!! I fell sorry for the guy, but that’s life (& especially on the internet) Thank you, Jannie Kock
Hi Eric, I dont feel you are obligated at all, especially since you never made a commission on this. Recommendations are just that – recommendations – its up to the individual to decide whether or not to buy into anything. You never forced him in any way. What I also can’t understand is why he waited so long with Paypal to put in a dispute. Even more so, why on earth would anyone fork out that kind of big money on a recommendation. I, myself have listened to alot of recommendations by marketers, some I have taken up (only if I could afford it) and some I have not. If I didnt like a product, etc once I had paid for it most of the time I would quickly put in a dispute but alot of the time I wouldnt even bother as I hadnt spent that much money. Even if I didnt like what I paid for I wouldnt approach the marketer and whinge about it for the simple reason – what works for some doesnt necessarily mean it works for others. I think the scenario of what you are going through is what all affiliate marketers are afraid of nowadays. Keep your chin up, I still think you are a champion. Regards from Down Under, Karen
Hello Eric, You are not obliged to provide a refund whichever way you may look at it.
This is an unfortunate situation and more so for Mr Dragutin. But, it is entirely up to the person concerned to do their own research.
Do I now sue my best mate for recommending a horse to win in the 14:40 race at Ascot last year?
It’s a bit of a mess but it’s not your mess to solve.
All the best,
Andy
(Czech Republic)
Wow Eric! What a mess. I’m with you I try to look at things from a Christian prospective and from what I read he needs to get restitution from the copywriter that ripped him off and not you. I appreciate your spell checker on here to keep me from looking like a fool with all my misspellings but, even more than that your willingness to pay this fella even though you don’t believe it’s your responsibility.
Here again I’m with you on that! That he is coming after the wrong guy for his money back.
Personally I felt ripped off from a realastate sales product for 5 grand myself and just counted it as water under the bridge and cut my losses. I wish it was only 13 hundred!
If you are playing with the baby’s milk money then you can’t really afford to play! Life is tough and we all have to be responsible for our own actions.
Have no idea what [redacted]’s problem is and why he didn’t fulfill his agreement with you and pay your commission or do what he said he would do for you little buddy. He is not only hurting himself but, the rest of Internet copywriters and marketers in the process.
The bottom line is [redacted] is the one to make restitution or step up to the plate and finish the job he started.
And from the looks of it he just shot himself in the foot with this one because, whenever someone Google’s his name this post is going to show up and he’ll be out of business soon.
Just hope [redacted] knows how to say “would you like fries with that?”
Personally I think that was your whole plan to begin with. Get enough comments to push this post to the #1 position for the name [redacted] and use it as a bargaining chip to have him pay up and you would pull it off the web.
But, hey I’ve been wrong before just not this time. LOL
Legally, no you are not responsible for the transaction let alone issuing a refund for an unsatisfactory service/product by a 3rd party.
But, If in all the going ons between your reader and the service provider you were at all involved in the dealings and received a payment in return, then yes you are liable to compensate the client atleast the amount of commission received.
Since this is not the case, morally you are also discharged of any responsibility. You did the right thing to remove yourself from recommending this person further. If I was the reader (and yes, I have been scamed many a times too) the most I would have asked you to do is, to atleast step in and liase with the service provider to help resolve the situation.
In closing, just a thought to ponder on – after seeing an ad on TV one proceeds to purchase the product advertised, then arises a dispute similar to this – would the TV station that aired the ad be responsible? They were paid a fee after all – my opinion is no, they are not! On that note, with all things said you are only obliged to offer your reader sympathy for the loss and he/she should claim it from Uncle Sam as part of their tax claims.
Hi Eric,
As far I am concerned you have always been one of the good guys out there.
There is no way you would have recommended this copy guy except in good faith.
I don’t see that it is your position to pay back the money.
The fact you didn’t even get paid a commision makes your link to this copy guy even less remote. The transaction is between these two individuals. I have had friends and family recommend services to me that have been disastrous. However, it never even crossed my mind to seek reimbursement from those who made the recommendations. This just defies common sense in my opinion.
Whatever you do don’t pay, if you do all of us will be held liable for our affiliated products. This kind of precedent will destroy IM.
Even if it was $20 it is the priciple here. We can not be responsible for the producer’s business.
This guy should take the copywrighter to court.
He needs copywriting. As a gesture of goodwill only, supply him with the copy he needs. Simple.
Hello Eric,
OK… so you drive a Ford Explorer. You love the vehicle and it’s never given you any problems. It’s been dependable and trustworthy. Based on this experience you recommend a Ford Explorer to a friend, who sad to say, gets a lemon. Are you obligated to pay back your friend? Absolutely not!
Sometimes bad things happen to good people. I feel for the gentleman as I was burned on an eBay transaction to the tune of $2,700. The guy had good feedback, until he decided to close down shop and run with all the money he had been paid. Up until that point he did what he was supposed to, but something changed.
He provided a quality product for you at one time, so your endorsement was based on good faith.
You are not legally liable (in my opinion), nor should you offer to compensate him. As you state, if you do this some unscrupulous people may try to take advantage of you.
I wish you the best, and I hope the gentleman is finally compensated by his credit card company.
Although this was not the case until recent years, I now strive to take full responsibility for every experience I have in my life and I encourage everyone (including you and this reader, and all your readers) to do the same.
Ultimately this means being willing to experience myself as the creator of each experience I have in life.
It’s not always easy, especially if I want at times to be right that something or someone else is at cause in what I experience (either because I want to blame, or because I want to honor, as in honoring God as the creator of all those things that I seem to have no control over).
But I have discovered through inquiry that there is ultimately no cause unless I say or believe so. I am always free to not put the word “because” between any two facts about my life, and I have found that when I do that, I can create freedom from any one thing WITHOUT having to first deal with or get rid of the presumed causes of that thing. This is the quickest way I know of to create unconditional freedom from any unwanted condition in my life and it always results in inner peace.
From that state of inner contentment and clarity, it is then easy to figure out what is the right course of action to take and have productive conversations with other parties if needed.
Rather than giving advice, I prefer to ask questions that help the person seeking the advice to discover their own answers inside where they have always been (they have just been hidden behind all the inner noise created by what they learned from all the experts touting their various theories of cause and effect)
So I won’t give an answer to your questions “Am I legally liable?” and “What is the right and ethical thing to do?” but I can assist you in getting clear answers for yourself that may or may not conflict with the majority of your readers’ opinions on this, and either way you’ll be at peace knowing that you did the right thing.
Many may think this is impossible, but isn’t it worth considering as a way to resolve life’s problems? I know it works when I apply it. And it has worked for most if not all of my clients when they applied it.
Eric,
I do not think you are legally or morally responsible to refund the money. He should know better than to pay 100% up front.
However, I would be a nice guy and split the difference with him since you did make the recommendation. Give him your Copywriting Pack and anything else that adds up to $672 worth of your digital only products. Costs you nothing but helps him out and makes it easier for him to swallow. Good luck!
Eric,
I do not think you you should be responsible for services rendered by someone other than yourself, also from reading the correspondence provided the customer in question should have raised a red flag to Paypal etc. long before he did. Also, not to take the role of the Devils advocate but…from what I read the customer could have (and to me at least) should have been a bit more clear with his expectations from the copywriter. In summation I look at it like this…If I buy buy a book and after reading it decide I don’t like it and I write to the author to get a refund and they tell me no am I justified in going to the person that wrote the glowing review for the New York Times and ask for a refund? Of course not! I really don’t see any difference here…
I appreciate your dilemma and honesty Eric.
I don’t think that you have any obligation whatsoever to pay anything because you acted on good faith. The guy should not have paid the copywriter up front, that was a mistake in my opinion. A costly one.
Personally, if I was in your position I would compensate the guy financially in some way. It would lessen the blow a bit for him and it would make you feel better about it too. Listen to your head and your heart.
It just goes to show you that its very hard in regard to testimonials, (I have been ripped off too) in the past, its embarrassing. Also its hard to know who to trust when you are buying online.
In this case the gentleman involved appears to be claiming that it is your fault (Eric) because he paid for a product. Well he does have a mind of his own. So he is responsible for his loss. Sadly situations like this happen to often and it makes trying to make money online very difficult for those that are honest. Eric I think the lesson in this for you is be careful of being guilty by association.
So in the future you will need to take great care in what products and whose products you endorse because you have such a large following of people paying so much attention to what you say.
So in some respect you are responsible for him buying or hiring the product so to speak because he had faith in you and what you were endorsing, but you are not responsible for the amount of money he spent as that really was his choice to go with it.
Some how some way If some type of gesture of goodwill towards this gentleman to help ease his pain, and sort out some of the damage that has been done.
I wonder what Jesus would do in this situation.
Eric I suggest you pray and see what God has to say here to you. Personally I do not think it was right that you posted this on your blog site as it will only add to the man’s shame and embarrassment because he was duped. I only hope that is not his real name in the letter for us all to see.Paypal will never refund as I have had that experience twice with them now. May be all your students could get together with some Ideas and have a competition to see who can come up with some really good copy for him, to some how ease his pain. I think some type of help in this situation would turn out better for you further down the track Eric, and I am not saying that you should pay him either.Only you yourself can answer the question you have put out there.
We reap what we sow. So To every would be marketer. What ever you sow, So shall you reap.
Hi Eric,
I had a problem like this many many years ago.
The difference was that I was earning affiliate commissions from the promotion. What I did was say to my list that if anyone was unhappy and couldn’t get a refund from the seller, I’d refund their money personally.
I lost money on the refunds I paid because they were for the full product purchase price which was more than my commission on the sale.
However, it was worth it to me to salvage a situation where I’d made a bad endorsement.
You should do what your conscience says. You are less “liable” than I was, in my opinion, because you didn’t earn a commission. However, the customer did act on your recommendation.
Given your relationship with the seller, can you lean on him to issue a refund? That would probably be my resolution of choice in this situation.
By the way, kudos for raising the issue in public. Not many marketers would do that.
Neil.
Eric I just wanted to know how do you really feel deep inside about this whole situation. I think its only something that you can really answer. What is the Holy Spirit saying to you about this? What is your inner core or gut saying to you. Not your external emotions. I feel what ever you do just pray first because God is Greater. You do not need all of our opinion on this matter!
Has this post been put up to justify, that you may have already made up your mind in this matter?
Hi Eric
I am sorry you are having problems such as this, but as marketers we could all find ourselves in this same situation if we recommend someone elses products.
What I would suggest is that you email the person involved and explain that you are not responsible, because at the time you recommended him you had already used the service and were very satisfied with it.
You decline to pay him any money explaining you are not liable, but then as a gesture of good will offer to take the sales letter he has had written, and get someone else to rectify what he is not happy about.
I am sure that you know other copywriters that you trust that can give you a great sales letter.
This will give this person the sales copy they are after and help to make them feel much better.
For you this may well cost you a couple of hundred dollars to get a great sales letter done for him, but a few hundred dollars is worth paying to know that your good name stays intact, and you can sleep better knowing that you have done the right thing.
Also you could not buy the sort of good publicity this guy is going to give you if you help get him straightened out.
Garry
I say this is a person that took your advice on good faith. They trust your judgement enough to fork out 1344.00 bucks. There for you with all your tallent should come up with one of your marketing tactics to cover his expences. But before you do you should have access to what was provided to him in return for his cash by the copy writer so that you can evaluate it your self to see if it lives up to what you recievied. You only paid 197 for your request.Why so much more for this custmer? This is a good way for you to get responces to your marketing and may be a key to success in the future. Put a good question to your readers then see what kind of responce you get. Then add a cookie for them to chomp on. Any way get the knowledge and facts before you make up your Mind either way. If the person will not supply the material you request. A copy of the letter that was wrighten for him. Then flat out refuse payment. If you have his trust and he is in the right with a bad deal that he recievied because you guided him in that direction, Then by all means Keep his trust, for in the future you may need him on your side.There are not alot of peple that will fork out that kind of money on a word, and yours is golden in this persons eyes.Good Luck and Let me know how this turns out.Jeff Burch
Hi,
I strongly believe this is an issue between the person who made the purchase and the person who he purchased from, I cannot see any reason why you could be liable for this.
Stay strong!
Henrik
Hi Eric, you have a tough call to make. I feel your pain on this matter and only hope that the issue can be resolved peacefully.
In my opinion you are not liable to repay this person any money. He did render the services of the copy writer from your recommendation, however as mentioned many times before, he should not of paid for services up-front or without going thru an Escrow first.
What is the point of attaining knowledge of a product or service if we(has a community or society) cannot use this knowledge to help one-another out by expressing our opinion, satisfaction or dis-satisfaction of that product or service if it helps our “fellow man” save time or money from our giving of that knowledge.
I am a firm believer in Karma or “you reap what you sow” or as Kern says it “give people what they want and you will get what you want in return”. I am not saying that you should give him the money, but in my opinion if you provide him with some of your own products or services, the “act” will return to you a thousand fold.
As an act of good faith as well for you providing your services to us as readers of Eric’s Tips, I would like for ALL of us to offer our services or a small monetary donation to you to help provide this person with the much needed help that we all would deserve and like to receive if we were in his shoes. As of this post from me, there are 349 comments, that is only $3.85 that we all would have to make to help this person and make Eric the Hero here which in my opinion he is fully deserving of.
In doing so, may Karma return our kindness a thousand fold for “doing what is right” here.
thanks for you time.
Wilf C.
Dear Eric,
I have no real interest in this problem of yours. My major concern is that I purchased Ewen Chia’s product Fast Track Cash through your link several weeks ago on the the basis of the promised bonus, an item of rebrandable software. As instructed, I emailed the ClickBank receipt to the requested address with the requested heading, expecting to receive the download instructions. I never received them. I have submitted a support ticket, which was logged successfully, but when I subsequently checked, it was gone with no reply. I submitted another and have just checked it. Same result. Gone without trace and with no reply. So my question is “Would you agree that this is entirely unsatisfactory?”
Oh, and Eric, you can contact me via my email if i can be of any further assistance to you on this matter or to make the donation if that is the route that you decide to take.
We cannot let the negative act of the copywriter (if the alligations of this matter are correct) impact us to replying with another negative act or selves, we must right this wrong-doing with a positive act of our own.
God Speed
Wilf
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Hello Eric,
a recommendation from you is not legal binding and it is up to the person you gave the recommendation to make his/hers own judgement. I assume that the person is an adult and as so he or she is able to make decision on her/his own.
My advice to you is to contact your reader and tell him to go to a lawyer and make a claim against the writer in this way:
1. Write me something I can accept. (this is what your reader must accept, it is the same if you hire somebody to repair your roof and it still drip, it is his right to make it work)
2. Give your reader his money back.
and Eris, look at me – that is the way to go, do not put feelings or anger or whatever in!
Best regards
Otto Jensen