Edition #66 – 7/13/2006
I recently received an email from an internet marketing “Guru” who was recommending RiskFreeProfit’s sports arbitrage system. In fact, he claimed that he was USING the system and making money with it.
Since this guy is a fairly well-respected marketer, and since the opportunity did claim to be “risk free”, I decided to give it a try so I could let you know if it was for real.
What I found is that RiskFreeProfit (RFP) is not truly “risk free”, and I’m going to call this guru’s bluff, because I don’t think he’s really using it. I’m sure he’s a paying member (because you have to be a member to be an affiliate), but I don’t think he’s actively using the system.
It seems the reason he and others are so eager to promote it, is because RFP offers a 2×15 “forced” matrix, with recurring commission. In other words, it’s MLM (multi-level) and you can make a ton of money if you get a lot of people under you.
The cost of the program is $139/month, and your sponsor gets a good chunk of that.
First, what IS sports arbitrage trading?
Some of you will be surprised that I even TRIED it, because it sounds a lot like gambling. However, arbitrage by its definition is not gambling. In fact, its a common business situation that occurs in many different industries.
Here is an explanation from Wikipedia:
“In economics, arbitrage is the practice of taking advantage of a state of imbalance between two or more markets: a combination of matching deals are struck that capitalize upon the imbalance, the profit being the difference between the market prices. When used by academics, an arbitrage is a transaction that involves no negative cash flow at any probabilistic or temporal state and a positive cash flow in at least one state. A person who engages in arbitrage is called an arbitrageur. The term is mainly applied to trading in financial instruments, such as bonds, stocks, derivatives and currencies. Entrepreneurs seek out arbitrage markets (i.e. insurance) to earn a profit. For example, consumers benefit greatly from entities who locate arbitrage markets within the insurance industry. Insurance arbitrage markets are an immensely profitable trend that Wall Street is eyeing. Those insurance firms in a non-arbitrage environment will likely have difficulty competing against an arbitrage business model.”
As you can see, “arbitrage” is simply an imbalance, and it’s a part of many business-related situations. Sports arbitrage trading applies this principle to sports betting. Here’s a quote from RFP’s site:
“Numerous arbitrage situations, also referred to as ‘sure bets’ ‘scalps’ and ‘risk free bets’, are created every day in sport’s-betting markets amongst the increasing number of bookmakers operating worldwide. These are terms attributed to a minor flaw in the betting system and YOU can take advantage of them! Earning from this flaw is perfectly legal and is tax free in most countries. The difference in the odds determines the amount of risk free profit to be made by the Sport’s Arbitrage Trader. “
So IN THEORY sports arbitrage does not involve risk, because you are guaranteed one of two outcomes, both of which involve a profit. In essence, it’s less of a gamble than the stock market, or any of a multitude of possible investments.
While this looks very attractive from 30,000 feet, I found some problems where the rubber meets the road.
The backbone of RFP’s system is their SureBetPro software, which finds “arbs” (arbitrage situations), and alerts you as they occur. For someone who is already a sports arbitrage trader, you can see how this could save a lot of time. Without such a tool, it would literally take all of your time to monitor dozens of online sportsbooks, let alone to do the math and figure out arbs the moment they occur.
The downside of this program started becoming evident before I even began using it. This is because you have to sign up with a lot of sportsbooks before you can begin the program. You want to have the largest pool possible, because then your chances of finding arbs will be greater.
As I signed up for a dozen or so sportsbooks, I immediately began to realize the potential for hassle. They all have their own terms and conditions, they’re located in various countries with various laws, they have different rules of operation, and they have different funding and payout processors. Many of them use some of the same processors, but it is by no means standard across the board.
So right from the get-go, I realized I’d have to be managing about 5 online money accounts in order to place bets and receive winnings from the sportsbooks. Each sportsbook also has their own terms about funding and payouts. Some of them charge a fee, depending on how you fund your account, others have minimum payout, etc. These are things you have to be aware of in arbitrage trading, because if you have a 2% profit margin, you don’t want it to be eaten up by a 3% processing fee. In other words, there’s a lot to keep track of…which is a pain.
I will say the SureBetPro software worked very well, in terms of what it was supposed to do, which is to find arbs. However, even with all the time saved, it’s still by no means “work free”. In fact, it’s rather time consuming.
You have to be online all the time and near your computer if you want to be alerted of the arbs as they occur. Most arbs last for only a short period of time, so you have to act quickly. The software does not place the bets for you. You have to log into each sportsbook and place the bet, as directed by the software.
RFP recommends that you don’t bet over $500, otherwise the sportsbooks may become suspicious, or they may limit your trading. This means that essentially your potential is limited. Let’s say I made 4% on a $500 trade (a nice arb); that’s $20 before fees. Even if I were lucky enough to get 5 of those in a day, that’s only $100, and I would have spent most of the day watching the software, logging into sportsbooks, verifying numbers, funding accounts, etc.
Besides that, there were very few lucrative arbs available during the few days that I tested it. The vast majority were in the 1-2% range, which hardly makes it worth the effort of placing the bets… not to mention your profit will be eaten by processing fees. Out of the good arbs, it seemed the majority were from a UK bookie which doesn’t allow members outside the UK, or from a Spanish-speaking bookie. Since I don’t live in the UK, I was out of luck there, and I wasn’t about to place a bet in a language I don’t understand. Can you imagine trying to resolve a dispute, LOL? It would be like, umm… yeah I would have read your terms of service if I spoke your language…
There were not enough profitable arbs available, and even if there were enough good ones, it still takes time. For me, it simply isn’t worth my time. EVEN IF it truly was risk free, it still wouldn’t be worth it.
For those of you who are investors, you may be thinking… okay, so hire someone else to spend their time doing it and split the profits with them. Again it’s not a bad idea–in theory. In fact you can join a sports arbitrage pool, where you buy shares and earn a percentage based on the earnings of the pool’s traders. However, as I’ll explain, there’s still risk involved… too much risk for me.
The biggest problem is that the bookies occasionally make mistakes, and when that happens, it shows up as an arb. As Wikipedia puts it,
“One problem with sports arbitrage is that bookmakers sometimes make mistakes and this can lead to an invocation of the ‘palpable error’ rule, which most bookmakers invoke when they have made a mistake by offering or posting incorrect odds.”
In other words, if THEY make a mistake it’s YOUR problem. In some cases you might get your money back, but in some cases you lose it. Even if you get your money back from the bookie who made the mistake, you’re out of luck if you lost the bet with the 2nd bookie of the arb (there are always 2 bookies in an arb trade).
Let’s say you’re placing $500 bets and making an average of 3% profit. If just one out of every 33 bets goes bad, you’d be losing money overall. In other words, it takes you 33 bets of $500 at 3% to earn $495 profit. If just one of those bets goes bad (resulting in a loss of the $500), it was all for nothing.
Here’s another problem. Keep in mind that two bets are required for a successful arb trade. You might place the first bet, but by the time you go to the 2nd bookie to place the 2nd bet, they may have changed their odds–or closed the betting altogether. If that happens, you could go to a 3rd bookie and place an opposing bet to minimize the risk of the bet you placed with bookie #1, but at this point you no longer have an arb, so it’s basically gambling.
Beyond that, I think there’s inherent risk involved when you’re dealing with dozens of off-shore bookies. You’re probably not protected by any laws, and in some cases it may be illegal for you to even participate. It’s not like these guys are FDIC insured. If one of them goes out of business (and it’s bound to happen eventually), and takes your money with them, you’re never going to see it again.
So here are the GOOD things I have to say about sports arbitrage:
– Using a software like SureBetPro saves time vs. doing it all manually
– It’s probably better than gambling
And here are the BAD things about it…
– Takes too much time
– Not enough good arbs to make it worthwhile
– Too many rules to keep track of
– Too many money accounts to deal with
– Risk of bookie mistakes
– Risk of getting locked out of the 2nd bet
– Risk of odds changing before you complete 2nd bet
– Risk of doing business with bookies
In conclusion, I’d say if you are addicted to gambling, then switching over to sports arbitrage might be a step in the right direction. But if you’re looking for an investment or business opportunity you should steer clear of it.
Hi Eric,
Thanks for taking your time to do this kind of review and to help us be more inform and educated. Keep it up! Allan
Great job on the review. I appreciate your thoroughness. I’ll be looking forward to your emails. Thanks, Kirk
Interesting, I actually had this program on the back burner to look at later. Thanks for saving me the grief!
All the best!
Rick Macaulay
Wow Eric, I’m shocked you even too the time to look into this RFP (risk free profit) has been around for a quite a while and I just assumed most people knew it was a lot of smoke and mirrors.
All the issues you stated are what makes it a promoters dream but it’s a arb traders nightmare.. first of all many times when the software does pick up an arb by the time you log into both bookies the odds have changed… sometimes you will get one side of the bet placed and the other side’s odds change so you don’t have an arb anymore…
Plus as stated all the restrictions on withdrawals, some bookies you can make one free one a month and other bookies there is a charge on everything…
To trade arbs profitably with this software you would need at least 25k bucks spread out over tons of bookies so you always had options.. the other thing that happens though is that say you have a large number of the winning side of the trade in one group of bookies it means the losing sides are in another group.. so you end up with half your bookies flush with cash and the other half with no money so you have to load them again…
The big attraction to many people is that once you are a member you can deposit money into their trading pool which does pay a very nice 4 or 5% a week and it compounds for a year..but in order to deposit you need to have recruited active people in the matrix…
My suggestion, DON’T bother… arb trading is very very hard work.. and very time consuming, you’ve better off the learn how to trade forex or the futures market… much less work, not much more risk.. and a lot less capital needed.
thanks for the review.. I like that you tell it how it is.
J
Trader J – thanks and good point… I forgot to mention the fact that the odds can change, or you might place one bet and then be stuck because the other bookie could close the betting before you get yours in. I’m gonna add that to the review right now, LOL
E
Thanks For The Great info
God Bless
Eric,
I belonged for a while and agree with your comments.
Additionally, I got charged for 3 months after I quit, they confirmed,
my cancellation, and I could not get the charges reversed.
Don
Happy to have helped.. I did look at this quite closely a while back and came to the exact some conclusions as you.. great minds think alike? haha…
Hi Eric, thanks for the heads up, although I haven’t, thank goodness gotten this type of program in my email yet. Sounds very time consuming and might be fun for some people, but doesn’t sound like good business sense. Thanks for keeping us all informed as usual.
Cheers and God Bless!
Thanks – I’ve sometimes talked about arbs with a gambler friend –
in theory its no risk – his thought were the www has made arbs with
a big percentage allmost non-exhistent – that aside –
you raise another interesting point about MLM –
the total focus on the income system and the product/service
is allmost an afterthought
how many emails have you received about “great business ops”
para after para – you get to the sign up line and they still havn’t
mentioned the product or service that is supposed
to generate all this income!!
My experience with IM is slender but it often reminds me of an old
scam – Send $10 to this address for my book “How to Make $1m Easily”
contents of the book – 1 page – place an add in the paper as I did
when people reply send a copy of this Book -urban myth or not sounds
familiar doesn’t it –
Hello Eric
Thanks for taking the time to inform us of this waste of money, I wouldn’t have joined anyway cause MLM is not a business, its simply a money making scheme which doesn’t last.
I am a forex trader and arbitrage is not a new concept its exactly how currency trading works.
Anyways thanks a lot for the information.
Peace
Eric! I tried a form of this a few years ago but paid a lump sum annual subscription to get going. As you say, I ended up with bookies accounts all over the world, some wanting certified copies of passports/birth certificates etc. I had spreadsheets galore, trying to keep track. The stress of trying to get bets on was amazing! Came to the conclusion that it would be a good way to have a bit of fun if you had a substantial amount of money to invest and could therefore take your time and make big hits. A lottery win comes to mind. Hard work for modest amounts. Interesting idea though.
Best regards.
Hi Eric:
Great review – like you, I have received several emails promoting this program/product over time. It seemed to wane for awhile, and then resurface!
If I’m not mistaken, I belive it was even offered on one of the big giveaways some time back, and even then I didn’t opt to download it even though it was free – something told me it just wasn’t the thing to do. I am glad that you have shown my instincts to be right!
Your reviews benefit a lot of people, and I just wanted to let you know that they are definitely appreciated.
As always, I look forward to your next newsletter!
Elaine
Thanks eric
I have seen some talk around the net about sports arbitrage and it all seems so easy, until you look at all the facts.
I can see how someone inexperienced could lose money at this easily..
Hi Eric,
Once again you’ve proved why I open every one of your emails. I appreciate that you tell it like it is. Your no BS approach really is comforting and definitely appreciated.
Cheers
Hi! I actually tried SureBetPro for a month last year and I wrote about my experience in a blog almost every day (you can click on my name to read it but unfortunately it’s written in Swedish). The reason that I decided to write about it in a blog were because so many people advertise this program and they all use the same sales material. I became suspicious since I couldn’t find anyone telling about their own personal experience. If it is so fantastic they should have no problem telling everyone that they are making money by trading. But as Trader J says most people seem to be in the program for the trading pool and not for the arbitrage trading part.
I came to the conclusion that it was not for me because of all the reasons Trader J mentioned. If I were going to promote the program I wanted to be an active trader otherwise it would feel like I was fooling people to think that arbitrage trading is easy.
You can read a professional arb traders opinion about SureBetPro here – http://thesurebetproscam.com/. You can probably guess by the domain address that he’s not exactly positive 🙂
Dear Eric;
Thanks for the drill on what not to go into.
I did try manually do it that way while I was watching nba games two years ago. Even I spot the difference, like Eric says, it’s not worth after all.
But as a programmer point of view, a couple of shortcomings could be done. Still, it’s limited by legal and terms you have with bookies. Besides, bookies may be set up a union to monitor these kind of activites to protect themselves. Or just hire Eric or me :))
Eric,
As usual, you are awesome! i am so happy to finally meet someone that feels the same way I do and really wants to tell it like it is.
It’s absurd the amount of overpriced stuff like that’s being promoted and it’s being promoted simply because it’s about making money, not helping your customer.
Again, you’ve done us all a great service. I don’t often read a lot of stuff I get in my email because a lot of it is junk, or tons of people selling the same thing. I read all of your emails though. I know that you’ll have something to say that I definitely want, or need, to hear.
Regards, Jinger Jarrett
Hallo Eric!
Thanks a lot for your very detailed report! I have not had offers for that program in my emails yet, but when I do, I’ll know exactly where it’ll go *smiles*. Thanks again for your honest, no nonsense, report, it sure is an eye opener!
thanks ecric.
I know I won’t waste my money & more impotantly my time.
Great advise..
Andrew
Thank you. It merely confirms my growing suspicion that the Internet has been, and is being, polluted by unethical individuals who will stoop to any low to make money. No matter who they hurt or how many people they scam. As we have learned through history, they might succeed for a while but in the long run their actions will come back to haunt them, in their dreams, in their life, in their children’s contempt. “As you sow so shall you reap.” The law of Karma never fails. No one is exempt.
Eric,
I love your work, I find it very informative. I am involved with several opportunites and constantly looking for new ones. I will look forward to more reviews.
Bob
Hi Everyone,
Let me start out by saying that I am a great fan of Erics and have found his advice to be most trustworthy. So, what I am going to write below is in no way a criticism of Eric, it’s just simply a difference of opinion.
I am using RFP and have been doing so for over 18 months. I don’t promote the MLM side of the program as it isn’t essential to do so, and I’m not interested in MLM anyway.
To be sure, sport’s arbitrage isnt everyone’s cup of tea, anymore than is building websites.
But that isnt the fault of RFP. To be fair, I have found the company to be very helpful when I’ve needed help, and the software to be excellent.
Before I started trading, I spent 2-3 months studying training material to get my head around the concept. This didnt come easily to me as I had never “bet” on anything in my life. The occasional lottery ticket was the extent of my “gambling” experience. As for what “odds” meant, well, I didnt have a clue. Eventually as a result of attending RFP’s online live training sessions for 2 hours twice a week, I felt confident enough to give it a go.
On RFP’s advice I initially joined 5 bookmakers. I read the T&C of each Bookmaker’s site and agree with Eric that there are variables from one site to another. However, they are not anything sinister, simply a choice that they make about how it’s best for them to conform with all government compliances as the industry is reasonably heavily regulated. They do require personal photo ID from each person who joins, not at joining time, but certainly if one intends to withdraw money. If a credit card is being used to deposit funds with them, then they need a photo of both sides of the CC.
Both forms of ID is a government requirement.
I joined 2 online wallets..Moneybookers and Neteller. My starting capital was US$1000. I deposited $200 with each of the 5 BM I initially signed up with and tried to trade the full amount every day, but it wasnt always possible as the number of arbs I could undertake each day was limited, but that was a good thing as initially it takes 20 minutes or more to place a trade. As my skills improved and my confidence increased I was able to place a trade in 2 minutes. After 12 weeks my capital had increased to $1615.44. I then joined up with more BMs in order to increase my trading opportunities. At the end of my first 12 months with RFP, my initial $1000 had increased to over $7892 after BM fees. (My offline bank a/c with the same sum deposited would have produced interest of $40!). In the 3 months after that, by trading as much as possible of the $7000 daily, I have made over $3000 profit already. I withdrew $1000 from Moneybookers and got charged $3.80 for a direct deposit into my bank a/c but wasnt charged anything when I redeposited it later on. Most bookies allow one free transfer from their a/c to Moneybookers or Neteller once a month, but a few small ones charge up to $15! to do it. (How unkind!)
Most of the arbs I traded were 2% but some were 3% or4%. One arb was 12%. However I decided to be wary of high percentage arbs because it indicates a huge error on the part of one BM and they would become aware of this very quickly and change it. You might wonder how my profit was $6892.82 (remember I had $1000 to start with). Well, it’s simple. One simply trades the profit along with the capital each day…COMPOUNDING INTEREST! How good is that!
Below are Eric’s “Bad things” about RFP.
Takes too much time
– Not enough good arbs to make it worthwhile
– Too many rules to keep track of
– Too many money accounts to deal with
– Risk of bookie mistakes
– Risk of getting locked out of the 2nd bet
– Risk of odds changing before you complete 2nd bet
– Risk of doing business with bookies
My comments on each of these “bad things”
1. Takes too much time? Only in the learning stages while one is trying to get the hang of it. Once I started trading I spent maybe an hour a day trading, plus 3 hours a week at online training. Now I spend 1 hour a day most days and up to 3 hours occasionally. Sundays I dont trade at all. I don’t sit in front of the computer checking for arbs because the software has an alarm bell in it that one can set to alert one when a suitable arb comes up, so when the alarm sounds I hot foot it onto the computer place the trade and then go do something else like trying to build websites.LOL.
2. Not enough good arbs to make it worthwhile? You be the judge of that… was a $6892 profit from $1000 seed capital “enough profit?”
3.Too many rules to keep track of? During the intial learning period it certainly seems that way. But its a bit like learning the road rules in order to drive a car safely. It becomes second nature after a while.
4.Too many accounts to deal with? Provided one keeps a record of which BMs they have joined it’s not an issue. RFP have an excellent Arb Manager software available but I have never subscribed to it as I havent yet found the need for it. This may change in the future.
5.Risk of BM mistakes? It’s a BM mistake that created the arb in the first place. Sure, the BM may quickly recognise the error and correct it, but this won’t spell disaster for the trader IF the trader is following the RFP training on this issue.
6.Risk of getting locked out of the second bet? Won’t happen if one is doing the trade the way one is taught to, however, sometimes we get a bit “smart”, think we know better,confirm the Ist bet and then bingo! we get either corrected odds on the second bet, or, more rarely, time has run out and the BM has closed all bets on that event. However the financial damage can be negated or at least limited if one follows the training on that issue. It’s happened to me more than once and I’ve developed my own solution for the problem and on one occasion I made over $100 more than I would have if the problem hadnt occurred.
Risk of odds changing before placing 2nd bet? Answered above.
Risk of doing business with bookies? I think any risk dealing with BM could be likened to doing business with the big Search Engines. Sometimes they change the rules. This past year none of the 26 BMs I deal with have changed any rules, nor let me down in any way, but at least one major Search Engine has changed the playing field several times.
In conclusion, I can understand why anyone who is making money online through websites, particularly sites that go on generating income day and night without one having to be there all the time, would find arb trading at around 2% tedious. However, for someone like me who is still learning the ropes on how to build such websites, RFP has been a blessing.
With love and respect to all,
Veronica
TraderJ.
I’m so sorry to hug the message board so much today but there have been so many inaccuracies posted here about sports arbitrage and RFP that I feel compelled to defend it. You say,
“To trade arbs profitably with this software you would need at least 25k bucks spread out over tons of bookies so you always had options..”
It isnt necessary to have large sums of money to trade arbs as I’ve demonstrated from my personal
experience, unless of course, one is looking at arb trading to make a living immediately. My expectations are that by the end of this second year of actually trading with RFP I will be making enough profit to live off, having started with $1000.
“the other thing that happens though is that say you have a large number of the winning side of the trade in one group of bookies it means the losing sides are in another group.. so you end up with half your bookies flush with cash and the other half with no money so you have to load them again…”
This will only occur if one uses all of the funds in a BM account to trade with. Most BM have a maximum bet figure and RFP recommends keeping the total amount traded (with both BM, not each BM) to $500. I personally make $300 my Max per trade and make sure that there is at least $100 in each a/c left so that I dont have to load up the losing side again. Just means lower trades for awhile and also one learns techniques to manage this.
RFP is definitely not a smoke and mirrors program, it is also not a quick way to get rich. I have traded the Stock Market and the Indices in the past and find RFP to have far less risk or pressure. Sure the profits dont match Forex , Indices and so one but at least the palms of my hands dont get sweaty or my heart doesnt pound when I go to place a trade.
Cheers,
Veronica
Hi Eric, Many thanks for your interesting review on Sports Arbitrage and as always you don’t try to sweeten a pot of bullshit, you tell it like it is and like many of your readers, I always read your emails because you have my vote of confidence.
I’ve had these emails of arbs a couple of years ago but as I’m not a betting fan I just didn’t get turned on by them. To me it felt too risky.
I was amazed at how much detail you gave in this review and realised you left no stone unturned and to think you gave so much time and effort to this and it’s all for free. Thank you so much.
As always thanks for guidance in this program review and all the previous ones.
Good health and happiness.
Martin
Real arbitrage, whether it is in securities, futures and options, or anything else, is a JOB, and generally requires constant surveillance of the markets involved and your transaction costs must be as low as the professionals in the market. 3% here and a small error there and you are losing money. In the futures and options markets, the people who make money in arbitrage are members of the Exchange who have no brokerage costs and who can clear their trades at almost no cost. Even they have only seconds to execute their trades and generally need a second “partner” broker to pull off the other side of the trade (futures trade vs option trade).
Since this is really a JOB, the other problem is that if you take a day off from this you don’t make any money that day, and it takes time that you could use to build your main business. A more desirable Internet-based business is one that builds you a recurring income that keeps paying you even if you take a day off.
Consider using the time to post articles to your blog or doing something else to promote your main business.
Thanks, Eric – your credibility just went up ahnother notch. Surprised, though to see you involved in this course of action after having “googled” you…
Peace,
Charlie~
Thanks for the in-depth review. I looked into this program a while back but, as you correctly pointed out, the mechanics and cost of setting up the various bookie accounts as well as funding and operating them really make “risk-free” profits quite unattainable in practice.
Keep up the good work!
Best wishes,
Chong
Eric:
It’s kinda funny that any guru would even recommend stuff like this.
I’ve heard some hokey recommendations before, but this takes the cake IMHO. Isn’t making money on the internet about actually selling stuff?
Hi Eric,
Thanks for the reviews of the product. You are the one who really speak the true of it. I salute you. You are such a great and honest IM marketer.
cheers,
flwong
Thanks for the warning. I think there are many more programs out there that really stinks and I have tried a lot of them and thrown away a lot of money. I really appreciate that somebody can speak out…because I have the feeling that all you big Gurus out there are protecting each other and promoting each others programs whatever they work or not. Recently I tried something called Adsense Made Easy…it looked good and maybe too easy. Anyway after more than a month and $140 spent on Google Adwords and maybe around 1000 hits/clicks I have made 1 sale for $21!!! They promised at least $50 – 100 every week. Anybody else tried this? Anybody tried “turnkey” programs like The Success Revealed Project (McCloud/Tomey) or Globaladvantage or Plug-In Profit Site? I want to ask before I throw away more money. I don’t believe the testimonials on all these sites anymore.
Hey Veronica-
Thank you very much for the detailed review. I think your case shows that it is possible to make money with RFP. So you made $6892 in the first year… let’s break that down…
You said 1 hour a day, plus another 3 hours a week for training (9 hours/week total). Let’s assume 6 days a week, and worked 50 weeks of the year. That’s 450 hours, which breaks down to $15.32/hour.
So now you’re more experienced, and currently making about $1000/mo, which sounds like it breaks down to about $27/hr.
That’s not bad for a lot of people. IMO any internet marketer should have their sites set a lot higher than that, but it beats most hourly jobs.
It’s definitely not worth it for me, due to the amount of work involved and what I feel is an inherent risk. But I can see how its working out for you. I agree the power of compounding interest is huge, but I find it very scary to invest all your capital every day with online bookmakers.
I like your comment about search engines though!
G’day Eric,
Thanks for your reply to my posting about RFP.
Your breakdown of my earnings to an hour rate is correct for the first 12 months work. It’s about $15p.h. as you say. Not much on the grand scale of possibilities, but it was a start.
However this past 3 months the time factor is only 4 hours a week, most weeks except during huge sporting events such as World Soccer and Wimbledon, when I have spent 3 hours a day over that period. I dont trade Sundays, because of religious reasons, nor Mondays due to the time lag between the Southern and Northern Hemispheres. (Our Monday is the NH Sunday, so not many arbs come up.) By my calculations I’m making around $40 p.h. Again it’s a long way from locking up a Mercedes Benz in the garage at night. I look on Arb trading as making better use of money than have it sitting in a bank a/c.
The risk with the BM is minimal. They are government regulated and there is an appeal Body if things go wrong. Just before I joined RFP, a bookmaker spat the dummy and the appeal body stepped in and claimed funds back for members. I believe they are much safer than offline BM’s, but as I’ve never dealt with any of these, I’m just making this assumption.
Now that I have Instant Adsense Templates I’m putting about 5 hours a day into that + 1 hr into Arbs so here’s hoping for at least a 5/1 increase in income.
Kindest thoughts,
Veronica
As ever Eric you have confirmed what we all suspect? yet another scam
When will people realise that if you have to work all day at something to make $100 it aint worth it.
Keep it up Mr Detective
many thanks
Hey Veronica – $40/hour ain’t bad at all. If its working for you financially, legally, and ethically, then that’s great. Just be careful!!
Don’t put TOO much time into Instant Adsense Templates either… I think everyone needs to be building AdSense sites, but keep in mind that AdSense is a tactic and it should not be the backbone of your business. I’d say list-building is more important than AdSense, and then along with AdSense you should explore affiliate marketing, product creation, etc. Not all of those things at once… tackle them one at a time… but the point is that you should diversify your business beyond AdSense.
Hi All,
It was a nice collection of reviews and very informative. Special thanks to Eric & Veronica for sparing their time in making us more aware of Sports Arbitrage Trading.
What I concluded from these reviews is- That in an Online Business, Planning, Alertness, Hard Work and Proper Research definitely pays sooner or later. Also, Proper tools and their usage definitely helps a lot in Online Money Making.
Thanks once again. Special thanks to Veronica for sharing her expertise in Sports Arbitrage.
I look forward to more informative reviews from Eric – The Honest Internet Marketing Guy.
I will also love Eric to post a detailed Review on ” How to do Research for finding whether an Online Opportunity is worth paying/joining?” This will save a lot of time, energy, money and frustration when the testimonials and claims given at the site turns to be fake.I am sorry if it has already been covered here.
Regards
Rajesh
Hi Eric
Thanks for the great review. I am surprised that you have gone through the process of verifying. Indeed your credibility just increased.
Appreciate what you have done for all of us.
Cheers!
Hi Eric,
Yet another awesome read on the review side of things. In regards to some of the posts from your other readers I have to wonder if they actually bother to read everything that is here.
While I have to agree, that the 2-12% arb ratio’s which occur are not particularly appealing, the learning curve seems steep(meaning it takes a long time to get your head wrapped around it), there is a high initial time investment, etc. I also see Veronica’s point. IF, perse, you have an opportunity, to join the program, to use the system not as an mlm tool, but rather as an income tool and follow the system, practice the system, and have the time to do so, it might turn into something from which you could fund other business ventures, feed you, keep a roof over your head etc. until your business(es) take off.
For example, as Veronica states it, she keeps it minimalized, has taken the time to school herself. She has performed the due diligence, and I believe that is something that allot of people are missing with all of this.
If the program isn’t right for you, that is fine. If you don’t have the 5, 6, or $700.00 to start off with, or even as Veronica had done, investing $1000, and splitting it over a group of 5 to get started, then by all means, don’t do it.
But do your due diligence and understand, that if you are looking at something as a business opportunity, just because you find the risk and the profit imbalanced against you in a specific opportunity doesn’t make that opportunity a “scam”. It simply means it’s not a proper fit. For example, I’m not a gambling or betting person really. It doesn’t mean that I won’t take risks. Just prefer the risks I have more control over. I also am not really too much of an mlmer.
If I had a solid system in place, for building the downines etc. I might well do so, however, I prefer doing things more on a one to one level, where it doesn’t require as much “people work.” If I’m going to become an arbitrageur, I would have to say that I’ll stick to the “google” variety.:-)
I can see that there are allot of systems being developed to attract more people to trading and betting across the internet and they are working for thousands upon thousands of people. If it can work for these people, it can work for anyone. It’s working for Veronica. She works very little. Obviously this system isn’t scamming anyone.
And on a personal note, being one that worked 8 hours a day in construction for $100 a day, sometimes more, I have to say that it kept food in my belly, a roof over my head, shoes on my feet, gas in my car and provided my entertainment. I would say that yes, I want more than that, but all in all, whether it’s worth it or not, is really up to the individual doing it. And if the math calculates correctly, if she worked an 8 hour day at this, she’d be making $320 a day. On average. That’s of course, $1600 a week, for only five days and still at home. Still with her weekends free to do what she wants.
I’m sure she’ll get to the point of making that $1600 daily, eventually, when she is investing enough across enough bookies, plus anything else she’s doing.
Now for working 3 hours a day, to make her $120 daily. That’s a good first step on how to do it.
On the point that you made, Eric, about adsense, I agree whole heartedly. Adsense is awesome, in many ways, and but it isn’t at all the end all be all of your business model, but as I mentioned earlier, combining it with arbitrage is really the way to go. Invest in lowcost ppc traffic, driving it to adsense pages with higher payout adsense ads. I’m still investigating this method, actually, and am still learning the html to build the properly formatted adsense sites also.
But build a list. Start a newsletter, build relationships, setup the optin forms, get some traffic going, giveaway some viral tools, setup the initial sales, communicate good content, promote something new, give more content, make some sales, back-end some offers, etc. etc…. In other words, regardless of your business type, you do need to diversify your income, so that you aren’t relying on one product or one technique. nothing lasts forever. You have to be prepared and bulletproof yourself from the bottom falling out.
Thanks for providing some space Eric, for me to speak my mind, if it made any sense. Awesome reviews from both you and Veronica. Keep it up bro. Good luck with your sportstrading Veronica. Peace.
Jamie
Hey Jamie- Thanks for the very nice summary. I like what you said here…
Agreed. And just to reiterate; You’re right, I never said RFP is a “scam”. The main point of my review is that it’s a lot of work, and that it’s not truly “risk free”.
Rajesh – that does sound like a good topic. I’ll try to cover it sometime…
Thank you, Eric, for a very thorough and above all balanced (underline) appraisal of what many might consider a business opportunity on the internet. You’ve helped to reduce misleading the gullible public.
I have read with interest your many reviews of eBook publishing to which I might revert at a later date. I love to write, but at the moment I am enrolled in about 4 dfifferent Marketing Projects which must now be pursued in earnest.
Who knows, when I’ve made my first million on the Internet, I might rever to your other excellent ideas.
Helga
I’m fairly sure I know who the “big marketing guru” is and attended a couple of his live conferences and actually got him on the phone. My intuition and gut feeling shoved me to the exit sign, stage right.
Well, I was a member, twice, and… most of my readers (of my reviews site) are PASSIVE types. So this is one opp that is not suited to those who choose to try to build a passive income. They could have if that deal with the Dream Team did not expire and my readers could have joined the arb pool with something like $3K or less and not have had to recruit 2 folks in the MLM style. That would have worked with many of my readers. But since the principals of RFP did not choose to prolong that deal, I had to quit and let one of my readers run with it. So of course, many of my readers would not have even bothered to trade! The pool, for them, is a good thing! If only RFP would relax the recruiting requirements… they would do far better than they are doing now!
js
admin of http://9planetreviews.com
Hi Eric and Jamie,
Thanks for the comment about Adsense Eric. I know you are correct and I will do as you say in a little while. But because I have procrastinated about putting sites up in the past, (in case they’re not good enough, or because something else comes along that seems easier,) I’m truly enjoying IAT. I’m editing articles for 4 template sites at present and am almost ready to upload them to my hosting a/c. Being able to focus on only IAT (for web marketing) is a radical step for me and while the momentum is there I need to stick with it.
Jamie, thank you too for your comments about RFP. I recognise you because I have read your postings on the PLR site forum. I hope it is going well for you. (I chose green for my colour too!)
Love and Peace to you both,
Veronica
Hi Eric.
Thank you !! I really appreciate the efforts that you put in to your recommendations. And I appreciate your honesty. Without your email, there would surely be many more people caught. I agree with your comments on MLM and the problems with being at the end of the queue.
So, now I have another question for you and I would appreciate your honesty in response. I am trying to get my head around RESELL RIGHTS. So much of it is flying around the web with every new guru promoting them in some form. It seems that some people create a product and sell MASTER RESELL RIGHTS. The buyers can then onsell RESELL RIGHTS. Then the new batch of buyers can sell the end products and so on ….etc. Isn’t this just a different form of MLM marketing ?. People buying and selling rights without necessarily using the product.
What are your thoughts ??
cheers – greg
Hey Greg- It is true that people buy and sell rights without using the product, but it is different from MLM. It has gotten extra confusing these days because many people are also attaching various terms and conditions to the “rights”. Unfortunately, a lot of the resale-rights stuff that gets passed around the internet-marketing world is pure crap. But there is some good stuff too, and I personally like resale rights because it allows someone to sell a product without having to create it themselves. You will find that I ocassionally sell resale-rights stuff (usually in a package or as a bonus), and I also ocassionally sell resale rights for my own products. I will try to cover this more in depth in the future…
Eric,
Interesting topic. As a sportsbettor, arbitrage is a part of life, yet not in the context of the system above. I use and expect arbitrage (line changes) to happen constantly, and make/time some of my bets accordingly. Example: During the football (American) season, I will place Over bets on Monday Night Football as early in the week as possible. I know the fans will be betting maybe Sunday but surely Monday (almost always on the Over) and the line will go up. I come back at game time Monday night and take the Under. Usually gives a 2-3 point middle, where I have an opportunity to win both bets. If done with teasers, usually a 15-17pt middle possibility.
No matter how you play the arbitrage game, most peoples downfall is lack of discipline, followed by lack of knowledge. Read Lack of Discipline as an ugle 5 letter word “GREED”.
Hi Eric,
I love your tips & reviews and your no-nonsense straight talking coverage of items like this. I am an arbitrageur and affiliate promoter of a sports arbitrage course and notification service, but I am going to try my best to be even handed here. Even to the extent of not including my website link/s so as not to be accused of blatant exploitation. I’d like to place a counterpoint to your review and the responses herein that hopefully redresses the balance slightly, although Veronica as another active arbitrageur has covered many of your “anti” points quite well. Sorry if this is a bit long.
Firstly, the key question – is Arbitrage Betting per se a scam? NO! Definitely not! (and you never said or implied it was).
Is MLM (of any kind) a scam? Again NO! At least not NECESSARILY, but many people incorrectly equate these two also.
Can the way in which either is marketed and/or promoted and/or sold be a scam? ABSOLUTELY! You betcha! Or at least, once again, it MAY be.
I purchased a very good and comprehensive UK course – real product not ebook – on sports arbitrage a few years back and also later paid for their arb-notification service, which, whilst not cheap, was quite effective and productive. I am quite shocked at the apparent methodology being used by RFP to promote arb betting as it is really self defeating. Some personal points I would therefore like to note in partial defence/defense of Arb Betting in general:
1. Yes it IS a huge pain to have to sign up to & manage a large number of different BM’s in order to maximise your opportunities. BUT it is much less painful these days to manage your “bank” due to the greater penetration of commonly accepted payment services like NetTeller and also as someone said it is pretty easy to knock up some spreadsheets that do the bulk of the job for you including arb percentage calculations.
2. Using NetTeller (or any other WIDELY accepted service for example) as one’s “bank” and ONLY focussing on BM’s that accept that service providers payments it is quite easy and LOW cost (potentially zero) to move money around and withdraw it. This is especially so when NetTeller do an ATM card that allows withdrawal from just about any ATM worldwide – watch for those ATM providers who make their OWN additional charges however!
3. Subscribing to a GOOD arb alert service that provides alerts by email or SMS to a mobile/cellphone as I did means that one can pick and choose the arbs one wishes, minimises the workload in finding the arbs to zero and helps maximise the gains (bearing in mind that one has to make a fair bit of arb profit initially – and annually – to pay for the alert service). I subscribed to a much “cheaper” service later and despite receiving hundreds and hundreds of arbs ( record was 20 in a day) NEVER received a single one above 3% – why it was cheap I guess. I used to receive MANY 5% plus arbs from the “dearer” service.
4. Yes! POTENTIALLY one DOES have to have rapid access to the web when alerts are received but it’s NOT necessarily the case since many (if not MOST) bets can also be placed verbally by phone. With mobile access to the web now far, far better with WiFi, Wap and mobile web browsers on PDA’s like the XDA & HP iPaq, and cellphones like those from Sony Ericsson & Nokia et al. and using a decent alert service (as I did) & not software one does NOT have to be tied to a desk/computer at all.
5. It most DEFINITELY IS a JOB if one is going to do it full time to earn a good income, since even with the various software tools around it still requires a human presence to place the bets reliably (and to ensure absolutely minimal/zero risk). It most certainly is NOT a passive income provider in any way, shape or form.
6. MANY aspects can have an impact on whether or not arbitrage bets are profitable for someone in a particular country. For example until just a few years ago 3% arbs were of ZERO use in the UK where the tax regime was such that even if one paid the betting tax up front it was impossible to make a profit. So whilst there IS a BIG learning curve and the first bets one places are nerve wracking because of NOT being 100% confident in what one is doing, it is actually VERY straightforward to understand what is required and especially if one follows the advice of a good instructional course on arb betting.
7. One can make some VERY impressive, truly ZERO RISK, GUARANTEED PROFIT arbs. My personal best (so far!) was for a 100% GUARANTEED $300 profit for an $800 total stake – $700 nett stake after return of $100 stake on the second (winning) bet – on the release of “Dumb & Dumberer” opening weekend box office takings! Tax free of course! That’s an over 48% return on investment (not gamble because it was zero risk & guaranteed) for 3 days employment of capital (Fri to Sun) and about 10 minutes of my time (that’s around $1800 per hour!) – try making THAT kind of return in a bank or other investment other than financial betting or arbitrage. Oh, and by the way that was with only a total of around $1,000 in my “bank” not $25k.
Yes, unfortunately, arbs like that are fairly rare, but they do happen often enough to keep one’s interest piqued. Sadly, I missed another one in similar vein (i.e. opening weekend box office takings) just a few weeks later as I was on holiday and was only subscribed to email alerts and not to the SMS service – that one was over 35%! I have made many other arbs where I was a little bit late getting the bets on (my fault) but where I still made over 7-8% and I rarely make bets now unless there is around 5% return. So I don’t make nearly as many these days, doing my own “spotting” and make a few grand $USD a year for a total of about 10 – 15 hours work.
Typically, large arbs occur NOT because a single BM has made a “palpable error” but because bettors place large contra market bets with a single bookie or country’s bookies. This is especially true when nationalistic pride or bias skews the betting (hence multinational events like soccer or Golf – good US player vs good Brit for example are great). This is because there tends to be an opposite skew either side of the Atlantic (as the Brits bet on the Brit and Americans bet on the American) which means BM’s are forced to adjust (improve) the odds on the opposite player to balance their own books. Not much good however as Eric found if you can’t get bets placed with the UK bookie!
Such “mistakes” are just normal bookies’ own internal compensating adjustments that provide the ever vigilant arb spotter with those brief opportunities for a guaranteed profit and are NOT going to be subject to cancellation as “palpable errors”. Consequently NEVER bet on an arb generated within a single BM as that is clearly a “palpable error” and a glaring mistake – but one can usually bet with confidence on such arbs generated across different BM’s especially when they are in different countries. TRUE, the BM’s are all moving faster (mainly because of the impact of the web) and that is part of the reason why large arbs are almost becoming rarer than rocking horse manure, not to mention why they rapidly disappear as fast as they arrive (or even faster).
I wholeheartedly agree with David when he talks about it being better spending time building a business – like selling on eBay, promoting your own ebook/s and back-end products or the like. However I disagree with all those who have written off Arbitrage Betting as a scam, it is anything but. On the other hand, any associated MLM promotion or onerous conditions to forming an arbitrage pool sound extremely suspicious and are likely to be much more associated with the term “scam”.
On a final note to anyone thinking of looking seriously at arbitrage betting in spite of what others have said here: do remember to take ALL your costs into consideration. When converting from one currency to another it is easy to lose some or all or more (i.e. make a loss!) of a 2-5% profit as well as the 3% charge typically made for loading up your “bank” via credit card (for speed). Keeping your “bank” money in NetTeller for as long as you can before withdrawal for example, reduces the overall impact of that charge (3% of an initial $1000 load is $30 is only 0.1% of a (profit) balance of $30,000. Withdraw $10,000 at no charge at $1000 a month for ten months and your bank is still left with a hefty $20k to play with across a very large number of BM’s that accept NetTeller at no charge for deposits!). There are also the “bonus” amounts that many BM’s offer which can be added to your funds and reduce the overall costs.
If Arbitage fits your game plan use it. If not then don’t. It does work, it’s NOT a scam but scams most definitely exist around it. Avoid the scam artists (or at least the scamming part/s of their operations) and remember that although you may become financially independent, i.e. no boss, on Arbitrage (sports or financial), such as Veronica appears to have (Well done!), you will NEVER become WEALTHY – for that you need multiple PASSIVE income streams and NOT a JOB.
Best regards.
I’m a member of RFP and have been for roughly 10 months now, but am just now becoming very interested in doing the trades myself using the software.
Veronica, I very much appreciate your insight and experience regarding the learning curve involved here and your success with it. I would like to contact you via the phone or Internet if possible to pick your brain a bit, if I could. I understand if you don’t want to put out any personal information on this board, but if there is a way I could contact you, let me know (I’m a bit reluctant to post my info on here).
Thanks,
Drew
you’re all retards if you can’t work arbitrage. Obviously at some times there’s not many arbs because most of them come from tennis and soccer. No tennis or soccer going on, and there’s not going to be as many arbs. You need to sign up with several alert systems, and leave winnings in the accounts for as long as possible so they compound, and the fees won’t really matter. Take your time and make sure the odds check out and quickly place the bets as simultaneously as possible; you might get locked out 1 out of say, 50 times. And, there’s a chance you’ll win big on those bets that do get locked out. I place on average, 6 arbs a day and I ignore anything under 2.5%. Arbitrage REALLY works if you’re smart enough, and take some time to research it and figure it out. I know; arbitrage pays my rent, bills, my bmw loan and i can put some away. I started with a thousand dollars and let it compound for a year.