Confessions of an Internet Marketing Scammer

By Eric | March 17, 2011

Recently my friend Paul Counts was duped by a scammer who is targeting Internet marketers.

In case you don’t know Paul, he’s proven himself to be one of the “good guys” in our industry, who upholds integrity and treats his customers right. It seems like it’s often the good people who fall prey to scammers, because they tend to trust people.

There are always plenty of scams happening online, and I’ve been scammed a few times myself. It’s NOT fun, and to be a victim is one of the worst feelings you can experience. Most people can probably relate to this at some point in their life.

What makes this story unique from the millions is that the scammer actually CONFESSED his scam and told Paul some of the details of his scamming methods.

In spite of confessing to one of his victims, I do not believe the scammer has been caught, and I DO believe he’s still perpetuating his scams. I’d like to share the details with you, so that you can be aware of this particular scam, as well as gain insight that may help you avoid other scams in the future.

DETAILS OF THE SCAM

The scammer posted an ad in a popular Internet marketing forum, advertising an “ad swap”. He claimed to have an opt-in list of 35k subscribers, whom he would email for his side of the swap. The other marketer participating in the swap would email his/her list on behalf of the scammer first.

Unfortunately, the scammer did not have a list. He was duping Internet marketers into sending out his promotions, in exchange for nothing.

VARIATION OF THE SCAM:

An ad was posted in the Warrior Forum advertising a “solo ad” to a 50k opt-in list, for $287. Several Internet marketers bought this offer, but received nothing in return.

One victim was Socrates Socratous, a well-known Internet marketer who paid $500 in a deal with the above scammer, and $450 to another (or maybe the same) scammer the same day.

Due to the nature of the scam, I think it is very possible that Paul’s scammer is the same guy.

PAUL’S PLEA TO THE SCAMMER:

After the scammer failed to fulfill his end of the deal, Paul sent him this email:

Hello Andy,

I really wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt here, but the longer it is taking you to respond to me really tells me that you probably didn’t intend to hold up your end of the deal and promote for me. I hope I am wrong here, but your screen shot showed my offer qued up and it should have taken you just a few minutes to check on what happened. Instead it is terribly apparent that you deleted my ad after you sent me the screen shot. Again, correct me if I am wrong here about this situation.

My main point is that we setup a solo ad as something that is mutually beneficial for both of us. I ended up just promoting your squeeze page and building your list with my valued subscribers, and in return I got nothing from you. My goal with ad swaps is to also build up mutually beneficial JV relationships where I promoted your products in the future and such.

I like to work with people and recommend people and offer that I can trust myself. Please forgive me for the harsh tone here, but Andy I am sure you can understand my position here.

I really hope that I am wrong and that we can resolve this issue soon.

Thanks,

Paul

THE SCAMMER’S CONFESSION

Here is his reply to Paul’s email. I have highighted certain portions to draw attention to them…

From: Andrew Tudor
Date: Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: Ad Swap – From Warrior Forum
To: Paul Counts

Hi Paul,

You are entirely correct! The reason I did this is because I don’t possess a list of 35,000 subscribers. I also understand exactly what you are saying about building a mutually beneficial JV relationship and I do apologize if I have caused you any inconvenience, I completely understand your position and you have every right to take a harsh tone, I should say that I am surprised that you consider your tone to be currently harsh because I know that many would be quite pissed off in this situation, I respect your reasonable attitude and yes initially I had no intention to hold my end of the deal, simply because it wasn’t possible for me and if I could have, then of course I would have, hey… at least I am being honest here and not continuing to provide you with BS as I am sure many others would.

You are obviously an intelligent man and everything you said was entirely correct. I have been scamming people on the Warrior Forum with solo ads, which they paid for, in your case I think you have lost less, or at least I really hope so because I understand what you say about trust and providing me with opt-ins, but I am still happy to send your ad out for you as it’s already evident to you that I am trying to build a list here. The guys who have been scammed were sent emails to confirm, however most were actually reasonable and as I made sense of the situation and explained that PayPal disputes would not work and that they could open them and I explained that I would just win and walk away, however I did request that those who wanted another option could avoid this by instead being reasonable with me about it and understanding my situation.

My name is not Andy Tudor, I have actually been in IM a very long time but have only just at this point started trying to aquire a list. Now, I really hate scamming or dishonest business, but recently hit a very hard financial time stuck deep in debt and having my family to provide for which is my 4 year old daughter Jasmine and partner Annie, I have gone down the dishonest route which has not been pleasant, but it provided me with what I required in the current circumstances.

So yeah, the solo ads would have done that alone but I wanted swaps because I wanted to get started with a list and then possibly start working my way up, the problem is with solo ads that many of my customers have complained that they can’t find good solo ads anywhere, so even though I considered this option for starting my list, this put me off.

Now I am not going to lie to you, as talking any more BS won’t get me any further so I might as well be honest here, I have never had to actually reply to any emails regarding swaps yet but I am sure I will have even more soon. The problem here is it’s indeed true that I have been unfair here, and I don’t know exactly what to say because on solo ads if I am to simply leave with a customers money then they have that to lose and by considering the fact they have nothing to lose by hearing me out and waiting for me to build my list so that I can eventually send out their ads is beneficial to them, and I do indeed intend to send out every one of them ads, for the customers that decided to not take what I said into consideration, they opened the disputes and soon after realized that I won them because it was a virtual good, I even explained this to them before but it’s their own fault for not listening on that.

I work through many different identities and own a VERY large amount of websites, this includes forums, membership sites, squeeze pages, product sales pages and quite a bit more. So the point I am trying to make is, that I could just return under a different identity anyway Paul, and I currently have another 58 swaps this week using many different identities. I have revealed my real name to many of the solo ad buyers and shown them my work.

So what exactly do I want? – Ideally, being beneficial to both of us here, I would like to at least offer to send out your ad when I have established an adequate sized list instead of running off with your subscribers, I don’t see the harm in you taking up this offer? – Also, I feel that contacts are far better to have with internet marketing and although I have been slightly influenced by other scammers and my situation, I really dislike working in this dishonest way.

So here you have the full truth, I can’t really explain much further and of course if you find it unacceptable, well that’s up to you really isn’t it? – However, consider my offer because I ask nothing in return, you have provided your side of the deal and when I can, I would feel better if I could return what you have offered rather than running away. Considering, either way will not really bother me too much, I think you are a good person and you certainly don’t deserve this, I am sorry.

I have many skills that lead to me becoming involved in internet marketing, I also am quite knowledgable on the subject and offer any advice. I understand my wrong-doing here, but theres no need to treat me like I don’t understand exactly what I am doing, this is all well planned and I know exactly what I am doing here, So now in regards to my last statement marked in “bold” font: What exactly do you want? – By all means let me know, as I wish to provide whatever I can on my end and remember Paul that this doesn’t mean you should go thinking you are better than myself for example, sure you carry out business in a more honest way but what I mean is, before you go refusing my offer and complaining, the solution here is to simply be reasonable with me because maybe I have something of benefit to you – I hope so anyway.

Best,
Andy

After Paul replied to the above email (the reply is not included here, as I don’t feel it’s necessary), “Andy” the scammer decided to add to his confession in another email to Paul, which is excerpted below…

Hi Paul,

I do have a list, it’s just not 35,000 subscribers at all, I have done lot’s of work in photoshop, website design and sony vegas, basically for the AWeber screenshot I simply used firebug in Firefox to modify the code and took the screenshot, of course if I wanted to I could have managed with photoshop fine but it just pointlessly takes that little bit longer and of course when I modify code, I don’t usually have to worry about anything being out of place even by 1 pixel, unless I make a mistake but that’s never happend so far. It’s like the ClickBank login videos that you see, some may appear very realistic but it’s a simple job of matching the frames between 2 different clips, I do understand that theres a safe-swaps site if you want to find swaps more safely but I had even questioned that immediately to the fact I could program a bot to enter email addresses into a form and then verfiy that I have a large list, I have never done so because I see it as a waste of time and I would be paying increased AWeber charges for fake/bot generated email addresses…

(Andy)

(UPDATE: Added 03/18/11, 1:35PM)
After posting this to my blog, I received another of Andy’s confessionals, which was received by Internet marketer Socrates Socratous. Socrates was scammed by Andy Tudor, and by Dave Rivera (aka Monta on the Warrior Forum), who may or may not be the same person.

Socrates submitted PayPal disputes, which were ruled in favor of the scammers by PayPal (due to the digital goods loophole). After Andy won the dispute, he sent this email to Socrates:

Well, it appears I have won that dispute… so I have changed my mind. The NO REFUNDZ policy now applies.

I look forward working with you again in the future, I will spend the more wisely, don’t worry!

I am going to enjoy a nice cigar, which might seem a waste of money but it’s just to celebrate your failure, the sweet and smokey taste of success..

It’s only $450 man, it’s not much at all, but I guess with all the others out there that I clearly SCAMMED, it all adds up at the end of each and every day!

You are indeed the idiot that fell into the scamtrap. How’s that for disrespect? – You think your money was enough? No, please… it’s the pure enjoyment of scamming you that makes it worthwhile.

I suggest you get onto your credit card company Socrates, it’s obviously a bad sign if you had to use a CREDIT card to purchase a solo ad, what’s wrong? Out of money? I hope you starve.

Best Regards,
Andy

Subsequently, Socrates did file a complaint with his credit card company, and DID receive his money back through a chargeback.
(End of updated section)

CONCLUSION

I could give a lot of my own commentary here about…

…how the scammer justifies his actions by his circumstances, and his “good conscience”…

…how he arrogantly talks of winning Paypal disputes, and has the guts to blame his victims for not listening to him…

…how he is STILL trying to scam Paul and CONTROL the situation in his emails, and even goes so far as to compare himself to Paul…

…the fact that he “feels bad” about it, yet has another 58 VICTIMS lined up already in the next week under his various scammer aliases…

But I’ll leave the bulk of the commentary to you. Please post your comments below.

And most importantly, beware of scammers like “Andy”. As the scammer himself confessed: Anything on your computer screen could be fake. Just because something looks real, that doesn’t mean it’s real.

At the same time, not everything is fake. There are plenty of legitimate opportunities, and there’s plenty of money to be made online. So take this knowledge and apply it to your personal “filter”, as you determine what’s real and what’s not.

Have a great day!

(UPDATE: Added 03/21/11, 2:40PM)

Just a quick update to let everyone know that Mike Filsaime has contacted his rep at PayPal to notify them about the scammer, and PayPal has confirmed that their risk department is taking care of the scammer’s accounts. Thanks Mike. The guys at AWeber have also been notified, and I was told that their security department is handling it as well.

406 thoughts on “Confessions of an Internet Marketing Scammer”

Paul Klein March 17, 2011

Hi Eric,

Thank you for the bold approach to this issue. I have spent time in the Warrior Forum, and I typically do not look to do swaps with unfamiliar people. Most people I trust are those I have known awhile, or have met at events and keep in touch with.

I know Paul, though not personally as you do, and know he is an extremely trustworthy and well-like individual. I respect the work he does. I am saddened to see him scammed this way.

The gall of some of these people, especially in the IM arena is getting out of hand. Some of us know of a few unscrupulous individuals out there that have used various aliases, and keep clear of them.

Keep up your terrific work and information dissemination.

Best,
Paul Klein

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Trisno Yudiantoro March 17, 2011

Thank you for your article about Confessions of an Internet Marketing Scammer.
It’s usefull for me to doing my online business.

Have a good day Eric!

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Dave March 17, 2011

Hi Eric
To the point..this guy should be tracked down and taken out to the woods and shot
Thanks
Dave

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Robert Wright March 17, 2011

Once again, Thank you Eric for this eye-opening post on what goes on behind the scenes in the Internet Marketing world.

You’re one of the good ones.

Robert Wright

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Linda March 17, 2011

I am completely shocked by this so called Andy guy. I cannot believe he admitted he is a scammer and that his name is not Andy, but yet he signs his name Andy..lol.

Someone should make a list up of all his fake identities so that everyone can be on the look out for them. Even though I am sure he dreams up a dozen more every hour.

I also think that Paul should get his IP address from his emails and find out who he really is and get this guy arrested. He needs to be STOPPED!!

I feel sorry for everyone who got scammed and thankfully I have not done any ad swaps because I fear that I will too get scammed as I have heard about others – well probably the same guy. How do you know who is legit anymore??

Thanks for posting this!
Linda

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Ken Harthun March 17, 2011

All I can say is OMFG, the state of IM is even worse than I thought. The arrogant SOB is really only a low-life criminal con man. If I didn’t know better, I’d say it sounds an awful lot like a guy named Matt LaClear (probably not a real name, either) who scammed a bunch of people I know in 2009/2010.

Thanks, Eric! I’ll be in touch in another channel. I need honest marketers to join my Skype channel.

Ken Harthun
The Internet Marketing Geek

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Steve March 17, 2011

The truth will make you free. It doesn’t matter if it is business or marriage, trust is made by truth, not deception. What you sow, you reap, more than you sow, later than you sow.

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Roy Babineaux March 17, 2011

Thank you for exposing these low life scammers! Great job!

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eMarie March 17, 2011

Thanks for the warning. Wow! Some people really have a lot of nerve. I have been scammed online a few times myself and now I have gotten better at spotting the scams. I hope that guy loses everything that he scammed out of people.

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Greg Meares March 17, 2011

WOW! I know many people that have fallen into bad times. It’s not a fun position to be in trust me I’ve been there but I can honestly say that never have me or my friends made the decision to take the wrong path.

Too bad some folks have low morals!

Greg

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CPA Networks March 17, 2011

Wow, it is people like this that give IM a bad name and makes it harder for the little guy. It is unbelievable that he tries to justify his actions at all. Some people have nerve. Great story to help others be aware of scammers. Thanks Matt

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Bertram March 17, 2011

Wow, this is a deep one Eric! I don’t do ad swaps, but I sure don’t feel safe from dirty scammers like this either! Just another reason why I have followed you from the beginning.

Thanks for “exposing” this and letting us in on the scam Eric. Someone has to get it through this guys head that he needs to be accountable for his actions!

So does it sound to you like he thinks he’s the ONLY one who has fallen on hard times? Or that he’s the ONLY one who has a family to support?

There’s NO justification for STEALING!

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mike moore March 17, 2011

Thanks for sharing Eric.It is amazing what people are capable of to gain the almighty dollar.I need money probably just as bad as the scammer does but that doesn’t justify me going to the bank and robbing it just because I can.Doesn’t mean I can scam somebody online and then brag how smart I am in doing so! wow…some people

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Carroll Alexander March 17, 2011

Thank you, Eric.

Surely the Warrior Forum can track this guy down.

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Paul March 17, 2011

Wow…what a crock of bull. Please tell me…is this guy name really Andy Tudor? I do NOT think it is.

Could it be a BIG time Internet Marketing Guru? Sure would like to know?

Paul

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Louis Conjar March 17, 2011

I have been scammed and cheated also by several internet marketers (including 2 very well known “gurus”).

This is a disgrace, to say the least. It also hurts those of us who work so hard to build trusting relationships.

I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if this particular scammer’s initials were KR. He has ripped me off twice and goes by different names, so I guess it’s “shame on me” since I let him do it to me twice. I guess it’s one of the prices we pay to build a successful business. But, it’s very sad.

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Pawel Reszka March 17, 2011

Insane! Although this is not very surprising. I think I have been scammed by a well known warrior before that sold solo ads, but I decided not to make a lot of noise about it because I had no real proof. His traffic came from some weird site and not from email addresses so that’s how I knew something wasn’t right. After that I stopped buying solo ads and do swaps with people.

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Brian March 17, 2011

I believe “what goes around comes around” He will get his in the end.

Trust is so hard to come by these days, and now it just got a little tougher.

What a shame!

Thanks for the warning!

Give my condolences to Paul.

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MM March 17, 2011

The problem with a sociopath (look it up) like this is that it makes people distrustful of ANY online business offers.

I’m afraid I have become very cynical in looking for help for my own fledgling online business.

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SEO Company March 17, 2011

The only recourse Paul and the other 58 victims has is to email their lists and apologize for exposing them to a scammer, offer them a gift and instruct them all to unsubscribe from Andy’s list. That way at least Andy will not have a list and if he gets subscribers wholesale unsubscribing maybe Aweber will suspend his account.

Thanks for sharing this info. At least everyone can be a bit more wary before falling for the same scam.

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Graham Price March 17, 2011

Wow Eric, and some people wonder why this industry has a bad rep !

As you rightly point out though there are also many legitimate marketers out there, thankfully. I myself have done very successful ad-swaps via the Warrior forum and have excellent feedback to prove it.

We all know that it does go on though it is just that we very rarely see the detail of it documented as you have and I for One appreciate your efforts in that.

I can only add to your advice in that everyone should use ultimate caution, ask for proof including names of satisfied partnerships, deals etc. etc. etc.

I do realise and accept that nobody can be 100% bullet proof against tried and practised scammers but due dilligence is certainly not to be understated here in an effort to bannish these people out of this industry.

I am all for “Naming & Shaming” it is just a pity that this worthless scammer cannot be hung out to dry in my book !

Many thanks Eric.

Kindest Regards – Graham

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Eric Sterling March 17, 2011

That is too bad. I have been a customer of several counts/wellman products and I appreciate the quality of the product as well as the non-hypeyness they project.

So what does one do? I have never done an ad swap, but now I would be even more wary of entering into any deals with somebody making an offer on Warrior Forum.

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Eric Post authorMarch 17, 2011

Thanks Paul!

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Michael March 17, 2011

Thank for the tip and info

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Tom Brownsword March 17, 2011

Eric,

Thanks for sharing this. You could have used this space for many other purposes but chose to use it to warn others instead.

I see lots of scams in my business and I deeply appreciate when people like you (i.e. well-known, successful marketers) use their influence and marketing “clout” to warn others about this type of stuff. May many others follow your example.

Best regards,
Tom Brownsword, CISSP, GCIA, Security+, ITILv3
Certified Computer Security Professional

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Philip C. March 17, 2011

There has got to be a way to track this idiot. IP address or whatever, but, there has definitely got to be a way.

You know, I grew up in one crazy-a**ed barrior in Santa Ana, California. You know what we call people like “Andy Tudor”? Dead. In the literal sense.

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Anders March 17, 2011

Stay away from ad swaps. A scammer with guts:-) the guys at jvnotify pro seems like angels in comparison with their $37 dollar push button software+ endless upsell products.

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Philip C. March 17, 2011

Typo. I meant to say “barrio”. Anyhow, people would be referring to “Andy” in the past tense.

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Eric Post authorMarch 17, 2011

No that’s not his real name, as far as I know. I don’t know his real name.

I do not get the impression that it’s a big time guru. For one thing, they all have lists already. But this guy does seem to really know IM, and been around it awhile.

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David T. McKee March 17, 2011

I agree with Steve above – the fact that this con man flaunts his criminal activity shows that he has gotten away with this for some time, unfortunately. Personally, I would not JV or swap with anyone who I have not personally either purchased products from or otherwise partnered with (reports, memberships, whatever). Not to say that a con person could not do this – but I believe that the kind of person who con’s is not capable of creating real value, even for a future con. My opinion of course, YMMV.

-David T. McKee

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Victor March 17, 2011

Thanks Eric. In every industry, there is a scammer, just that in IM it is so much easier to scam people.

What is important is there are people like Paul and yourself who are willing to come out and stand up to such unethical people.

I hope that all who read this article will also spread the news in some way.

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Grant March 17, 2011

Well done, Eric for posting this and throwing caution out there. “Andy” isn’t done by a long shot nor does he care at all and for some, I can see them falling into a further trap with him again because that is what he is trying to do to Paul. Kind of a screw me once, your fault, screw me twice my fault situation and I’d say he likely does get away with the screw me twice deals as well with some of his victims unfortunately as his stuff is very planned and methodical like he’s saying.

I’d also like to take the time to thank you for what you do and helping others like me to learn IM from an honest and obviously caring person like yourself. I am very much the same way as you and look forward to, through your lessons, cresting the hill soon and doing this as ethically as you have.

So thanks, I really mean that. I really appreciate the information you provide and have grown great respect for you for this. I follow your lessons everyday and look forward to coming home from work and studying the next one.

Thanks again,
Grant

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brian March 17, 2011

Thx. for this Eric. I was staggered by the scale of “Andy’s” moral deficit. We have him in our sites.

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Phil Cullum March 17, 2011

The venue (in this case, Warrior Forum) has some obligation (IMHO) to protect its users from people like this. It’s also in their economic interest since they will lose customers if they let this continue.

In that regard, I like Ebay’s policy of reimbursing a buyer for money taken through a scam. I have bought backlinks and other marketing support on Ebay.

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Jorge Delgado March 17, 2011

it’s incredible…too many scammers out there!

thanks for sharing
Jorge

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Mary Blackburn March 17, 2011

Eric,

At least Paul knew that he had been scammed. Why can’t these people put all their knowledge to a good use instead of to hurt others? Andy says, “I dislike working in this dishonest way.” REALLY? Are you kidding me?

I am now going through my Clickbank account being suspended because someone, somehow scammed my vendors account. I’m so new to this I have no idea what to do.

I did a lot of guest blogging over the first weekend of March to help get the word out about my e-cookbook. I got 20 sales over the first weekend of March.

Clickbank is now telling me that all of those sales were frudulent, (this was my very first ebook for sale ever). They supposedly reviewed the sales and are now saying that I am a spammer, and refunded all sales. I don’t even know how that is possible since I didn’t send out any emails to my list. Just guest blogged on 3 different blogs. Plus, I don’t know if all those people downloaded my book and now have it for free.

My account is now suspended, they refunded all my sales and I can’t get any answers. As a new vendor marketer this is extremely frustrating and disappointing. I am guilty before I can even make my case.

As this “Andy” says, I too have a family that is falling on hard times right now. Because of people like him I have lost revenue that I was counting on to pay my bills. Am I supposed to feel sorry for his partner, Annie and his 4 yr old Jasmine? It “AIN’T HAPPENING”. I do feel sorry for Jasmine, growing up with a criminal as a father. Yes Andy, you are a criminal!

I also feel sorry for Paul and hope that he can recoup his losses.

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Angel Rivera March 17, 2011

Great Article,Eric! Keep up the good informative warnings. Hangthem high!

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John March 17, 2011

It seems the amounts involved all qualify for small claims court, individually, but collectively amount to a significant amount of money. But bringing an action is probably moot. This guy may be so smart that he is dumb. Actually confessing and having that confession published could also be actionable [against the confessor]. But is the confession itself even real? The situation is not limited to ad-swaps. The plethora of UK addresses for Joe Simpson and his various pseudonyms in FOREX is yet another example. Amazing how response to one email elicits an army of additional FOREX emails, all from similar UK addresses all proposing conflicting products, and then each of the sellers then cross promoting each others products which decry their own products. Seems just another example of what we are seeing with the ad-swaps.

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Futak March 17, 2011

Phew!

Thanks for posting this Eric – with the traffic you get on your site, this should hopefully send big enough shock waves to force the so-called Any Tudor out of business. Presumably the head honchos at Warrior Forum are hot on the heels of investigating this?

Dez.

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Kitty Jellinek March 17, 2011

Wow what a nerve! Andy has given some more miss-information here by insinuating that you can not do a charge back via PayPal for “virtual Goods”. Also as I see it his product is a service which was not delivered. My advice to Paul is to start a dispute via PayPal – the same goes for Socrates Socratous.
By instigating a dispute via PayPal at least Andy will not be able to use his PayPal account to scam more people.
I believe the following statement from Andy, to also be a lie:
“they opened the disputes and soon after realized that I won them because it was a virtual good, I even explained this to them before but it’s their own fault for not listening on that.”
He is writing this to try to stop Paul from lodging a dispute.
Also If I was Paul, I would not like my name/product to be associated with any future solo mailings promised to be made by Andy to his future list!

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Caesar March 17, 2011

I usually stay away from warrior forum

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Chris March 17, 2011

Thanks for the heads up Eric.

I think what “SEO Company” said above about the victims emailing their lists and telling them to unsubscribe is a great idea. It’s a shame that Paypal’s system has this virtual goods loophole. I’ve been had by that one but thankfully only for a small amount.

On another note, I think a good alias for a scammer would be “Ben Laden”…that way if people complain about being scammed, the scammer can rationalize by saying “hey, my name was Ben Laden..they should have known I was plotting something terrible”

So everyone beware of Ben Laden. He’s a bad dude!

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Sue McDonald March 17, 2011

Yes they are out there. I have had similar experiences. One guy claimed he had a list of 5.5K never got one click. Then another solo ad guy claimed he had 11K – never got one click. When I complained to both of them they said they had definitely sent but their list did not like my offer. I had been taken for a ride so I am glad that you are exposing this because it is happening more frequently.
Thanks
Sue

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CCHOMENETWORK March 17, 2011

Hi Eric,

I like the way you are commenting on that. A lot of scammers are using the peoples trust and getting away with it. That is a pitty in my eyes but I would not just give away an emaillist for money. So what are the difficulties to get such scamming AR*EHOLES out of business?
Nobody (mostly) takes the time to check things out, before dealing with people like this! Sometimes are lots of information on blogs or in a forum and the dealing person could have found it quickly – if one only would have searched for infos on that. I do always check things out if I can or if it is nessesary.
I hope many webusers can read your information here.

Thank you Eric

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Franklin March 17, 2011

I knew they were out there, just look at all the junk launches that go on every week… it is not that hard to just go get a job and start over. People have to go so low, is it greed.. plus this guy is breaking the law and should be charged – find him!!!!

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Brad Wilson March 17, 2011

Thanks for posting this scam. I’m actually not surprised by this at all. That’s because I’ve seen various versions of this over the years.

It’s truly sad because it makes it that much harder to build trust for those who are actually offering great products and services.

The answer for me is to join groups of like minded people like a mastermind club and over time we all earn the respect and trust of everyone.

Another point is that this info is very timely for me because I’m actually thinking of building a swap system and I was looking for the pros and cons.

Please keep us posted as you find out more, and thanks again.

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coty March 17, 2011

Hello Eric,
As a writer I have done business with both you and Paul and I know you both to be trustworthy. The scammer quite frankly would be hard to catch as suggested because IP addresses can be hidden and rotated. Paying money up front for a swap made no sense. Moneys can be placed into an escrow account until the project has been completed and then paid. As far as swaps, most of the time I simply will unsubscribe from any marketer I know has swapped my email because I gave the permission to the marketer I wanted to work with, I did not give the swapper any right to email me even if I do not opt-in to his page, this is still spamming in my book. My email box is full all day long with emails many from swaps, and I hate it I do not have time to listen to some of their bull shit offers, (and I do apologize) but it wastes my energy and time.
I was in the financial markets for many years, and my clients were precious to me, I would never disclose anything about them nor give even their names to anyone. They trusted me!
So in conclusion I would recommend to any one choose who you want to deal with and choose carefully, in many cases offers will come from the people you trust, don’t just take any and all free reports you may be getting emails 4 and 5 times per day, and that my friends is ridiculous.
Thankx for listening speak soon
coty

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Michael March 17, 2011

That’s a crime and a crying shame, and the bigger crime is he believes himself untouchable and unstoppable…

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Shane Gorry March 17, 2011

Some people can not be like this. Others can’t seem to run an honest business if they tried.

I’ll make no excuses for scammers, as we can see from this example here they can do that for themselves.

However these people are what they are and they will always be there like an environment there are always predators.

The best we can do is be aware of the possibilities and educate others as you are doing here Eric.

Another point people need to be aware of is that Andy is right about Paypal. They will not protect you. Same with the warrior forum. And I wouldn’t hold my breathe for the FTC to or any other “authority” to be of to much assistance either.

We can waste hours, days or even month getting all emotional about how these things are “allowed” to happen. Or we could spend our time and energy in other things more productive.

Again be aware of your environment. DON’T send large amounts of money to strangers. Especially if your don’t have the kind of capital that people like Socrates have. 😉

Their are many other ways to build relationships then by meeting strangers in “wild west bar” style internet forums.
Remember most scams target those looking for fast result. So does most sales copy for that matter. 😉

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Mike Filsaime March 17, 2011

Eric. Get me this guys paypal email and I will call my tier 1 rep at paypal and have him shut down for life same day. Tell Socrates to email me. H has my email. This is just sad.

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