Confessions of an Internet Marketing Scammer

By Eric | March 17, 2011

Recently my friend Paul Counts was duped by a scammer who is targeting Internet marketers.

In case you don’t know Paul, he’s proven himself to be one of the “good guys” in our industry, who upholds integrity and treats his customers right. It seems like it’s often the good people who fall prey to scammers, because they tend to trust people.

There are always plenty of scams happening online, and I’ve been scammed a few times myself. It’s NOT fun, and to be a victim is one of the worst feelings you can experience. Most people can probably relate to this at some point in their life.

What makes this story unique from the millions is that the scammer actually CONFESSED his scam and told Paul some of the details of his scamming methods.

In spite of confessing to one of his victims, I do not believe the scammer has been caught, and I DO believe he’s still perpetuating his scams. I’d like to share the details with you, so that you can be aware of this particular scam, as well as gain insight that may help you avoid other scams in the future.

DETAILS OF THE SCAM

The scammer posted an ad in a popular Internet marketing forum, advertising an “ad swap”. He claimed to have an opt-in list of 35k subscribers, whom he would email for his side of the swap. The other marketer participating in the swap would email his/her list on behalf of the scammer first.

Unfortunately, the scammer did not have a list. He was duping Internet marketers into sending out his promotions, in exchange for nothing.

VARIATION OF THE SCAM:

An ad was posted in the Warrior Forum advertising a “solo ad” to a 50k opt-in list, for $287. Several Internet marketers bought this offer, but received nothing in return.

One victim was Socrates Socratous, a well-known Internet marketer who paid $500 in a deal with the above scammer, and $450 to another (or maybe the same) scammer the same day.

Due to the nature of the scam, I think it is very possible that Paul’s scammer is the same guy.

PAUL’S PLEA TO THE SCAMMER:

After the scammer failed to fulfill his end of the deal, Paul sent him this email:

Hello Andy,

I really wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt here, but the longer it is taking you to respond to me really tells me that you probably didn’t intend to hold up your end of the deal and promote for me. I hope I am wrong here, but your screen shot showed my offer qued up and it should have taken you just a few minutes to check on what happened. Instead it is terribly apparent that you deleted my ad after you sent me the screen shot. Again, correct me if I am wrong here about this situation.

My main point is that we setup a solo ad as something that is mutually beneficial for both of us. I ended up just promoting your squeeze page and building your list with my valued subscribers, and in return I got nothing from you. My goal with ad swaps is to also build up mutually beneficial JV relationships where I promoted your products in the future and such.

I like to work with people and recommend people and offer that I can trust myself. Please forgive me for the harsh tone here, but Andy I am sure you can understand my position here.

I really hope that I am wrong and that we can resolve this issue soon.

Thanks,

Paul

THE SCAMMER’S CONFESSION

Here is his reply to Paul’s email. I have highighted certain portions to draw attention to them…

From: Andrew Tudor
Date: Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: Ad Swap – From Warrior Forum
To: Paul Counts

Hi Paul,

You are entirely correct! The reason I did this is because I don’t possess a list of 35,000 subscribers. I also understand exactly what you are saying about building a mutually beneficial JV relationship and I do apologize if I have caused you any inconvenience, I completely understand your position and you have every right to take a harsh tone, I should say that I am surprised that you consider your tone to be currently harsh because I know that many would be quite pissed off in this situation, I respect your reasonable attitude and yes initially I had no intention to hold my end of the deal, simply because it wasn’t possible for me and if I could have, then of course I would have, hey… at least I am being honest here and not continuing to provide you with BS as I am sure many others would.

You are obviously an intelligent man and everything you said was entirely correct. I have been scamming people on the Warrior Forum with solo ads, which they paid for, in your case I think you have lost less, or at least I really hope so because I understand what you say about trust and providing me with opt-ins, but I am still happy to send your ad out for you as it’s already evident to you that I am trying to build a list here. The guys who have been scammed were sent emails to confirm, however most were actually reasonable and as I made sense of the situation and explained that PayPal disputes would not work and that they could open them and I explained that I would just win and walk away, however I did request that those who wanted another option could avoid this by instead being reasonable with me about it and understanding my situation.

My name is not Andy Tudor, I have actually been in IM a very long time but have only just at this point started trying to aquire a list. Now, I really hate scamming or dishonest business, but recently hit a very hard financial time stuck deep in debt and having my family to provide for which is my 4 year old daughter Jasmine and partner Annie, I have gone down the dishonest route which has not been pleasant, but it provided me with what I required in the current circumstances.

So yeah, the solo ads would have done that alone but I wanted swaps because I wanted to get started with a list and then possibly start working my way up, the problem is with solo ads that many of my customers have complained that they can’t find good solo ads anywhere, so even though I considered this option for starting my list, this put me off.

Now I am not going to lie to you, as talking any more BS won’t get me any further so I might as well be honest here, I have never had to actually reply to any emails regarding swaps yet but I am sure I will have even more soon. The problem here is it’s indeed true that I have been unfair here, and I don’t know exactly what to say because on solo ads if I am to simply leave with a customers money then they have that to lose and by considering the fact they have nothing to lose by hearing me out and waiting for me to build my list so that I can eventually send out their ads is beneficial to them, and I do indeed intend to send out every one of them ads, for the customers that decided to not take what I said into consideration, they opened the disputes and soon after realized that I won them because it was a virtual good, I even explained this to them before but it’s their own fault for not listening on that.

I work through many different identities and own a VERY large amount of websites, this includes forums, membership sites, squeeze pages, product sales pages and quite a bit more. So the point I am trying to make is, that I could just return under a different identity anyway Paul, and I currently have another 58 swaps this week using many different identities. I have revealed my real name to many of the solo ad buyers and shown them my work.

So what exactly do I want? – Ideally, being beneficial to both of us here, I would like to at least offer to send out your ad when I have established an adequate sized list instead of running off with your subscribers, I don’t see the harm in you taking up this offer? – Also, I feel that contacts are far better to have with internet marketing and although I have been slightly influenced by other scammers and my situation, I really dislike working in this dishonest way.

So here you have the full truth, I can’t really explain much further and of course if you find it unacceptable, well that’s up to you really isn’t it? – However, consider my offer because I ask nothing in return, you have provided your side of the deal and when I can, I would feel better if I could return what you have offered rather than running away. Considering, either way will not really bother me too much, I think you are a good person and you certainly don’t deserve this, I am sorry.

I have many skills that lead to me becoming involved in internet marketing, I also am quite knowledgable on the subject and offer any advice. I understand my wrong-doing here, but theres no need to treat me like I don’t understand exactly what I am doing, this is all well planned and I know exactly what I am doing here, So now in regards to my last statement marked in “bold” font: What exactly do you want? – By all means let me know, as I wish to provide whatever I can on my end and remember Paul that this doesn’t mean you should go thinking you are better than myself for example, sure you carry out business in a more honest way but what I mean is, before you go refusing my offer and complaining, the solution here is to simply be reasonable with me because maybe I have something of benefit to you – I hope so anyway.

Best,
Andy

After Paul replied to the above email (the reply is not included here, as I don’t feel it’s necessary), “Andy” the scammer decided to add to his confession in another email to Paul, which is excerpted below…

Hi Paul,

I do have a list, it’s just not 35,000 subscribers at all, I have done lot’s of work in photoshop, website design and sony vegas, basically for the AWeber screenshot I simply used firebug in Firefox to modify the code and took the screenshot, of course if I wanted to I could have managed with photoshop fine but it just pointlessly takes that little bit longer and of course when I modify code, I don’t usually have to worry about anything being out of place even by 1 pixel, unless I make a mistake but that’s never happend so far. It’s like the ClickBank login videos that you see, some may appear very realistic but it’s a simple job of matching the frames between 2 different clips, I do understand that theres a safe-swaps site if you want to find swaps more safely but I had even questioned that immediately to the fact I could program a bot to enter email addresses into a form and then verfiy that I have a large list, I have never done so because I see it as a waste of time and I would be paying increased AWeber charges for fake/bot generated email addresses…

(Andy)

(UPDATE: Added 03/18/11, 1:35PM)
After posting this to my blog, I received another of Andy’s confessionals, which was received by Internet marketer Socrates Socratous. Socrates was scammed by Andy Tudor, and by Dave Rivera (aka Monta on the Warrior Forum), who may or may not be the same person.

Socrates submitted PayPal disputes, which were ruled in favor of the scammers by PayPal (due to the digital goods loophole). After Andy won the dispute, he sent this email to Socrates:

Well, it appears I have won that dispute… so I have changed my mind. The NO REFUNDZ policy now applies.

I look forward working with you again in the future, I will spend the more wisely, don’t worry!

I am going to enjoy a nice cigar, which might seem a waste of money but it’s just to celebrate your failure, the sweet and smokey taste of success..

It’s only $450 man, it’s not much at all, but I guess with all the others out there that I clearly SCAMMED, it all adds up at the end of each and every day!

You are indeed the idiot that fell into the scamtrap. How’s that for disrespect? – You think your money was enough? No, please… it’s the pure enjoyment of scamming you that makes it worthwhile.

I suggest you get onto your credit card company Socrates, it’s obviously a bad sign if you had to use a CREDIT card to purchase a solo ad, what’s wrong? Out of money? I hope you starve.

Best Regards,
Andy

Subsequently, Socrates did file a complaint with his credit card company, and DID receive his money back through a chargeback.
(End of updated section)

CONCLUSION

I could give a lot of my own commentary here about…

…how the scammer justifies his actions by his circumstances, and his “good conscience”…

…how he arrogantly talks of winning Paypal disputes, and has the guts to blame his victims for not listening to him…

…how he is STILL trying to scam Paul and CONTROL the situation in his emails, and even goes so far as to compare himself to Paul…

…the fact that he “feels bad” about it, yet has another 58 VICTIMS lined up already in the next week under his various scammer aliases…

But I’ll leave the bulk of the commentary to you. Please post your comments below.

And most importantly, beware of scammers like “Andy”. As the scammer himself confessed: Anything on your computer screen could be fake. Just because something looks real, that doesn’t mean it’s real.

At the same time, not everything is fake. There are plenty of legitimate opportunities, and there’s plenty of money to be made online. So take this knowledge and apply it to your personal “filter”, as you determine what’s real and what’s not.

Have a great day!

(UPDATE: Added 03/21/11, 2:40PM)

Just a quick update to let everyone know that Mike Filsaime has contacted his rep at PayPal to notify them about the scammer, and PayPal has confirmed that their risk department is taking care of the scammer’s accounts. Thanks Mike. The guys at AWeber have also been notified, and I was told that their security department is handling it as well.

406 thoughts on “Confessions of an Internet Marketing Scammer”

John March 17, 2011

Some fascinating insights here but only one person hit on an underpinning problem with this whole thing…why was Paul “swapping” (read, giving out) my email address without my permission.

I’m NOT saying that Andy has NO RESPONSIBILITY here at all.It’s not even that Paul was giving out our email addresses to a total stranger BUT that he was giving our email addresses out at all, going against his own Privacy Policy.

How many of us get spammed by Guru’s after Guru’s obviously “swapping” our email addresses with each other and then our In Boxes become stuffed with so many offers. Then the “Andy’s” of the world get their BOGUS and/or FELONIOUS offers snuck inside, too.

Paul has been in the business for sometime and unfortunately let his guard down. I imagine he will be a little more attentive next time as we all are now with this story. Thank you Eric, for bringing it to our attention.

My last comment is that I think “Andy’s confession” is also BOGUS as it is probably part of his scam in “threatening” his victims by supposedly “apologizing” then giving a “sob story” of his life and then letting the victim know that there is nothing he can do about the situation. This would seem to play on several levels of emotions here. Of course we are looking at it differently then what Paul experienced. We are angered, dismayed, fearful.

I, too, have been scammed but I am now finally getting the “Big Picture” with all these “offers” bombarding my Inbox. They are all coming from BIG as well as SMALL Guru’s who supposedly keep my email address “PRIVATE” and yet I get more and more emails from people I have never heard from.

THAT is the big travesty in all this, SCAMMERS, THIEVES, CON MEN are all part of the business (unfortunately) but what about the “honest” people that tell you that they will keep your “secrets” a secret?

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Eric Hendrix March 17, 2011

It is very unfortunate even in a reputable site like the warrior Forum these tactics exist.
I believe that what goes around comes around in due time. This Andy fellow will get what’s coming to him.

Hey, thank you for posting this type of public notice. You have always come through with great information. Keep it up!
Eric

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Johan March 17, 2011

Wow, I cant believe it. Thanks Eric for pointing this out. These are truly the ones that give the internet marketing community a bad name. I hope everyone is encourages to do good in this life. Remember what goes around comes around so in the end I believe Andy would have to pay one way or another. I have been scammed myself and actually in one case this scammer defrauded so many ppl that he actually went to jail. Then he had to pay monthly to everyone he scammed. Whatever it is, the scammer fools himself in the end but the true ppl stay successful in the long term and in the end…

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Buzz Hill March 18, 2011

If you look at his English, I would bet he is not in the US and therefore not subject to US laws. Most likely the reason why he is not worried about the confession.

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David "ECS Dave" Hipp March 18, 2011

To quote rossgoldberg and his comment that brought me here:

" This kind of crap makes me sick – http://ow.ly/4gUUN "…

Well said Ross.

Yes, it makes me sick too…

Be Well!
ECS Dave

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Susan March 18, 2011

Thank you very much for letting everyone know about this! Just the other day I got an email from a marketer who had a good way to make quick affilate income through using ad swaps. I was working on setting the system up today as a matter of fact. Now that I’ve heard about this guy there’s NO WAY I’m going to approach anyone about ad swaps!
It really sickens and saddens me to hear about this sort of thing. Although I don’t live in “La-La” land I am still a very trusting person and reading about these sort of scams makes me very nervous about doing business online.
Take care Eric.

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Troy March 18, 2011

At the risk of sounding foolish here, has anyone considered that Andy might very well be a female and not a male?

In the message to Paul, Andy mentioned a daughter named Jasmine and a partner named Annie.

For me, that immediately opened up the possibility that this scoundrel Andy might not be a man and could possibly, in fact, be a woman, which could be very important to know for obvious reasons.

Just an observation.

Thanks, once again, for excellent info Eric.

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Jason Dinner March 18, 2011

Eric,

Nice job outing this d-bag. What is wrong with some people in our niche these days?

Habitual Line Steppers is what they are. (Can you guess what show is the phrase “Habitual Line Steppers” is from? lol)

Anyway dude, where’s your facebook like and retweet buttons?

This needs to get spread out as far as possible lol.

All The Best,

Jason Dinner

P.S. You have a beautiful family. I love that everyone has super blond hair! We’re expecting our 4th in less than 5 years this June so I’ll right there along side you with 2 boys and 2 girls 😛

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anxietycurepaniccure March 18, 2011

Some scams are blatant – like this one. Others are subtle, and people don’t even realize they are throwing away their money. There are so many TRICKS. eg Take the 30 day guarentee: you buy something, you get overloaded with work, before you realise it the 30 days is up and the thing does not work. I got a product through you, from a “respectful” IM, put in 7 months effort(anything from 3 to 12 hours per day, 6-7 days p.w.) and in the end it did not work. my loss was not the +- $ 400 dollars I paid, it was the hundreds of hours I put in. These scams are more dangerous/harmful than the blatant ones.

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Tom March 18, 2011

With internet, it is easy to do business worldwide but at the same time it is very much easy for scammers to do ply their monkey business victimizing people…we have to be careful because there is no regulating body overlooking the internet.

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melissa March 18, 2011

Within the last month I have been presented with an opportunity that specifically makes this claim *that PayPal disputes would not work and that they could open them and…I would just win and walk away.* It is now on an external drive with some other offers I considered to be scams, but save as reminders; there was also a pic of *jasmine* and *annie* (I believe it could be this same person’s work) on another sales letter.
That being said, and my being an incredibly suspicious person at this point, having been ripped off too many times, I must say that the *confession* is very reminiscent of a very very old *confession* sales pitch from the 1940’s and could be just another ploy by the alledged scammer to get more press, more searches, more *victims*, more notoriety and more MONEY. Judging by the comments, most of that’s been accomplished.
FYI, top level us gov agencies are who to file complaints with.
I’m just saying…
Many thanks to paul and eric for a great job reporting this.
PS: I do not know what’s adding the slash – I don’t known html, css, etc.,

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David March 18, 2011

There is no surprise here. Almost every single WSO order I made turned out to be a scam. There are many desperate people out there.

There is very little honor or integrity amongst the majority of Internet Marketers I have encountered.

This guy says he has extensive knowledge of Internet market and yet he is struggling. That should tell us all something!

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melissa March 18, 2011

Hmmm…the slash only showed in the preview. Also, this guy does not appear to be in US – which is why the gov is necessary.

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melissa March 18, 2011

LMAO…He NEVER was mentally balanced was he?

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PT March 18, 2011

This guy is real piece of work. Your run of the mill dirt bag. Lots of thinking errors. He rips people off because his needs are more important than anyone else. Then he warns the victims not to turn him in. When they do, he now has the “right” to feel okay about burning them since they tried to burn him “first” by getting their money back.
In Paul’s case he has the dilemma that Paul did not try to legally stop the guy, but instead treated him with reason and kindness. This has Andy a little perplexed since it is much easier to put the screws to someone when they have come across in an unkind or mean way. That way the perpetrator can justify his guilt in that they (the victims) really deserved what I did to them because they are bungholes anyway.
Instead, Andy will have to make it okay at some future date when it good for him, so he can assuage his guilty conscience, (which will probably be never, but hey! it’s the thought that counts).
That is why Jesus said turn the other cheek, don’t be ignorant, but pray for your enemies, in doing so you will heap coals upon their heads. I agree with Steve. This guy needs Jesus. Paul’s kind letter has the guy already uncomfortable that is why he has written back twice.
Thanks for the heads up Eric. We can always depend on you to take controversial and touchy subjects head on. I agree with the others here, you are one of the good guys and so is Paul Counts. I hold you both in high esteem.

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melissa March 18, 2011

I was fortunate not to lose money on this one, but if you go to the host site separately, not through the promoted link, you will see that the host does not require 4 yrs paid in advance, and actually offers a month to month hosting plan and there is no setup fee.
It’s my guess that it is the reseller who’s running the *scam*.

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Kathleen March 18, 2011

Hi all,

just want to say that you are talking about this guy as if he is the only one scamming but, lets not forget about about all those scammers they sell you all those useless programs that will make you rich in blah, blah days, so they tell you- just pay me $37,$39, or even $47, $49 within 7 clicks of your mouse and you don’t even have to have techie knowledge etc; Also they give you a 60 days trial or your money back -that you never get even though you have requested it.
One particular guy ( i won’t say his name here) is ripping people off left right and center and does not even have the decency to reply you when you write to him- i even have written to him and told him straight that he is a scammer and the end result of this is he now has the cheek to send me e-mails because he has added me to his other subscriber list and even though i wrote to the payment system he uses and eventually got my money back- they still help him steal hard earned peoples money by keeping him in the system and also admitted to me in a round-a-bout way that they had a lot of complaints about him, and i know of only a handful of only true good and honest guys on IM (you including Eric in this )and i can only count these guys on my one hand!
So, forgive me but i get angry everyday that there are a lot of scammers out there who get away with their stealing from innocent, honest people who are trying to survive in this industry everyday, so what about them too- lets not forget them with Mr Andy whatever name he uses being one of them!
so, if any of you bad guys out that are reading this, i will only say this – KARMA – WHAT YOU SOW, YOU SHALL REAP- BECAUSE YOUR TIME IS COMING!!

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sue March 18, 2011

WOW!!!!!!!!!!
I am gob smacked Eric!
I have taught my children to treat others the way you want to be treated and I carry this through my business never in my wildest dreams would I ever think anyone could do this!
Paul please dont take this please fight back you deserve to be treated better! You have the proof his confession you will win we will all back you Paul!

why hasnt wso closed his account? they should and I am sure there are ways of aliases to be desicovered – how many paypal accounts can you have lol

I will have to make sure I really look at any wso offers from now on (go with those I trust) and really look at any IM offers too – it takes just one bad apple doesnt it!

Eric thank you so much for telling us about this I know it wasnt to create some sort of hate march vendeta type of thing that it was a for warned is a for armed.

Paul I wish you the best to take action and report him I wish you hadn’t been scammed and I thank you for giving permission to reprint the emails to warn us all.

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Andy March 18, 2011

Thanks for sharing this. That man is scum, a con man and a thief. I’m lost for words at his sheer arrogance..
As a matter of principle, before buying online I try to do some research, it’s not foolproof but a quick Google search can reveal a lot about any given product or person. Even with you Eric! lol but don’t worry I’ve bought from you twice and always top quality.
Andy

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melissa March 18, 2011

I don’t get this part: when you click on the image like he says it goes to the archived page, but if you go ahead and enter your email – i used a junk mailbox – it takes you to a live page with 2 videos – so, is this really off the Internet or is it just a new twist for yet another scam? I’m seriously confused about this one, but I can tell you that the *stripper* is still on the Internet, still selling, still operating; different name, different picture, but still there!

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The "Make Money Online For Newbies" Guy March 18, 2011

Eric,

Thanks for this warning. And yes, I have been scammed as well – but not by Andy. Sometimes these guys lure you in with a small deal and then have you later when bigger money comes into play. This is the experience with S6 Solutions in Canada who takes in outsourcing work. – The guy is know as Pej.

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TrafficNymphomaniac March 18, 2011

Remedies for this rip-off:

(1)Join his list from throwaway email address

(2)Over a month or so make a list of all his affiliate offers

(3)Record his IP address

(4)Record all autoresponder addresses

(5)Keep copies of all correspondence

(6)Note any Web sites promoted and record Web site host

(7)GET YOUR LAWYER to send a letter to Paypal (or Clickbank or whoever the payment agent is) with details of the abuses. Same procedure for autoresponder service and Web site hosts.

********

Aweber or Payapl or Web hosting service definitely have the resources to learn the scam artist’s actual identity. Such corporations will shut this guy down in a heartbeat, because the last thing they want is legal action perhaps spanning three or more countries. Or class action lawsuits for that matter.

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Bobby Mac March 18, 2011

I’d say I’m surprised but I’m not in the least bit. What does surprise me though is that someone with the skill to track another person down hasn’t done that by now and either beaten the ever loving chit our of this person or had them put behind bars, where they belong with other thieves.
Bobby

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bryan March 18, 2011

i ama new comer to the net ,had a feeling about the net crooks and it has proven to be right will stay off line for a time and see what happens with sleeze bag hope you can get a goode result bryan western australia

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Pete March 18, 2011

Hi Eric, while I’m glad I haven’t personally fallen for the scam, I think the chap has done internet marketers a favour here by exposing ‘exactly’ how many of the so-called honest Guru’s behave – Re Photo-shopping video slides etc.

It’s a modification on the oldest scam in the book – find something a lot of people need and offer a solution, whether you actually have the solution or not is irrelevant, you are merely sucking money from peoples greed.

“Buyer Beware” should be the mantra we all chant with every offer on the internet. I’ve been stuffed by supposedly honest marketers in the past and I expect I will again in the future – that’s life, mark it up as experience.

Too much emphasis is put on ‘Automation’ these days and so the human touch which often reveals Dodgy-Dealings is lost. Yes it does speed things up, but it also lays us all bare to any scam flying around in the ether.

The chap sounded basically honest and if I’d paid him money and received an E-mail saying that he ‘would’ honour his agreement in the future I would have regarded it as ‘Money in the Bank’.

We’ve all been in that dark place where we don’t know which way to turn. I’m glad I’ve not yet arrived in the place our so-called scammer has found himself in and I think rather than condem him those who ‘can’ help ‘should’ and that might offer some kind of Karma to protect them from reaching those depths in the future.

The Good Samaritan comes to mind here.

That’s my two-penneth Eric for what it’s worth.

Have a great day Y’all 🙂

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d3so March 18, 2011

That sucks. I’ve never been scammed before. I somehow ended up on Andy’s list last month. Good thing I immediately unsubcribed.

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jaco March 18, 2011

hey eric. Its very bad about all the scams on the net, but i want to ask you if you know about sites where you can buy targeted traffic? Do they actualy exist, and is it a good option to drive traffic to your site if you dont have the time to do your own marketing? Thank you very much for the great service eric. All the best.

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Isobel March 18, 2011

Interesting, he says: “I work through many different identities and own a VERY large amount of websites, this includes forums, membership sites, squeeze pages, product sales pages and quite a bit more.” Somewhere else he claims to have been in IM a long time. Yet he still has to run scams to make any money at all.

The guy is not only a scumbag, he’s a totally incompetent scumbag!

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Tina Lindgren March 18, 2011

Hi Eric
Thank you very much for this informative article.

It is unbeliavable to read this scammers arguments, for what he is doing.

The good side of this sad story is that the demand for honest marketers, will never end, and that´s where the good guys ( you, paul and many other hardworking marketers) will get rewarded with loyal customers, and Jv partners, who will love to do longterm business with you.

I hope that the scammer will experience that bad karma is glued to his dirty money, and he won´t be able to enjoy them.

Cheers
Tina

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Ryan K March 18, 2011

Doesn’t surprise me a bit. Simple slight of hand magician crap. Best to find a reputable company to help build your list…

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Nate March 18, 2011

Like anyone gives a shit about internet marketeers… They are the scum of the earth, and quite possibly worse human beings than bankers..
I’m glad to hear you get ripped off, once in a while. This is what you do to soo many people on a daily basis..
Marketing scum..

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Mr Bearly March 18, 2011

G’Day Eric and all, yeah I’ve been scammed as well to the tune of $1,000s. Not proud of that but have moved on.

Andy claims to … own a VERY large amount of websites, this includes forums, membership sites, squeeze pages, product sales pages and quite a bit more.. So why does he even need to scam? Shouldn’t all this virtual real estate be making some money for him? Couldn’t he just plug a sign-up form on his busiest websites and get his 35k list?

Naah! He is just full of BS and is still a lazy wannabe.

58 suckers @ $400 = $23,200. Hmmm… So that’s why he scams, makes more from that than running his sites legitimately.

Perhaps he should write and ebook on how to make $20,000 a month by scamming. Just joking.

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Guard Yourself Now March 18, 2011

This guy sounds like he is so proud of himself for being a pro scam. I know nothing in this letter is true but he felt the need to return a letter to him letting him know about his so called family. Their is nothing wrong with this guy he knows how to hit below the belt, and he did it, Now we need to catch him but he also knows it will take a while (Catch me if you can) His is most likely outside of the US and young so getting caught is not really an issues it is the thrill of the hunt. BEWARE is the key word. I am sure by now their is a Black list. Thank you Eric for giving us the heads up. Never let your guard down ask questions and stay aware. Thank You so much

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Paul Counts March 18, 2011

Thanks Paul for the kind words! I really appreciate it. It was a great learning experience and something I am glad Eric can bring to light in this way so others don’t fall into this same trap.

It is truly sad how much of this stuff is going on out there. It takes a few people like this to give an entire industry a bad name which is why these people need to be stopped and bringing it out in the open like this is a huge first step!

Thanks Eric for taking this issue publicly to help others out and thanks for all the comments and support here!

Paul

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Sera March 18, 2011

Your conclusion is succinct and on key–however, may I add:

* THIS SCAMMER IS LIKE A GANGSTER THUG *

…and I’ve known many, LITERALLY and in person.

Not just because he deceives in order to rob, cheat and steal. But because “he” justifies his actions, and deceives himself with rationalizations that will temporarily soothe his own conscience so he can sleep at night.

When his psyche refuses to accept the lies he feeds himself and decides to join reality and confess to himself that his actions are plain wrong, he will be sickened by what he has done, without any way to undo his actions.

ATTN: SCAMMERS–REMORSE IS A BITCH!

*** You can lie to others…they will learn or move on.

*** You can lie to God…s/he knows the truth anyway.

*** But lying to yourself is the worst sin of all…because your SELF will believe the lies, and be deceived. Thus, you’re not living in reality, let alone being true to yourself.

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Lynn March 18, 2011

This is why though I have opted in to many IM
lists I very rarely purchase product.
I did some math on it recently, and
realized that if I bought into every
IM scheme (and yes, this IS what the
majority are (if you read the disclaimer
of earnings none are guaranteed to earn
cash for the buyer, no matter what the
sales pitch states)), I’d most likely
have paid out my whole yearly income
and more, and have no guaranteed income
to show for same.

Good job posting this, Eric.

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Michele March 18, 2011

Are the moderators at the Warrior Forum doing anything about it? Good grief, times are tough for everyone but to stoop that low is just despicable.
With a bit of ingenuity I am sure he can be tracked down, and once he is, it will not be pretty.
The internet just seem to harbor more and more scums, it’s so hard to know where to turn these days. You can only be as vigilant as you possibly can be.

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Don Hill March 18, 2011

Wow – here we all are, in an industry that’s rife with BS like forged Paypal screenshots showing “five-figure paydays” and the aforementioned “trappings of success” (photos of mansions, exotic cars, bundles of Benjamins, and tropical beaches with a disgustingly-attractive couple strolling on the sand)…

And we’re surprised to discover that there are SCAMMERS in our midst? Has our industry’s overlying motto suddenly become, “Duhh – WINNING!”

Wherever and whenever large sums of money are involved, there also will be the scammers and con-artists. They especially thrive where there is already an atmosphere of confusion, coupled with a certain “suspension of disbelief.”

I’m amazed at how so many people seem to simply throw caution to the wind when going online to “make money” – apparently believing that somehow the internet operates on a completely different set of morals and principles than the “offline” world does.

It doesn’t help much when the overwhelming majority of “promo tools” I see offered to affiliates these days appear to be designed to attract only lazy, greedy people who don’t want to do anything “hard.”

Most of them would stand a much better chance of making “big money” by just taking their seven dollars (which the best sales copy in the world couldn’t convince them to part with) and just buy lottery tickets with it instead.

I personally don’t do the “ad swap thing,” because I’ve seen otherwise “good” marketers basically ending up having to serve TWO masters – their OWN subscribers, and their “swap PARTNERS.” (Notice that I didn’t say the partners’ SUBSCRIBERS?)

If you aren’t “in sync” with your ad-swap partner(s), your subscribers will notice the inconsistencies, and you may find yourself losing some of your BEST subscribers, as a result of their being bombarded by too many attempts to get them to click on your partner’s links – whether you do that by sending out MORE emails, or by “stuffing” the links of multiple partners into one email.

Either way, the Call To Action is diluted, if not defeated altogether.

It’s almost gotten to the point that if an email starts out with “My good friend XXXXX just came out with…” then I find my cursor being almost irresistably being drawn down towards the “unsubscribe” link. I won’t say what will keep me from actually clicking that link – but anyone who understands marketing already knows how to accomplish that.

The idea of posting a public “blacklist” may sound attractive at first thought, but I can assure you that the first time you’re served with a summons to respond to a seven-figure libel lawsuit, you may end up having second thoughts about bad-mouthing someone in a medium that keeps everything forever (if you know where to look for it).

However, if I were to change my mind and decide to engage in an ad-swap, it would only be with people who I’ve personally spoken with, whether via phone or by Skype. I’d also refrain from engaging in swaps with anyone who couldn’t (or won’t) provide me with references of other people they’ve swapped with – including contact details so I can check them out.

Reagan offered some very wise advice when he said, “Trust – but VERIFY!” If the other party objects, then I quote Don Corleone – “Nothin’ personal – It’s just BUSINESS!”

(Sorry about the long comment – I tend to “get wound up” when writing about things like this…)

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Adrian lennon March 18, 2011

I just wanted to say what a great job you have done there eric and i feel sorry to hear about a true marketing guy like paul for trusting a fake scammer the Warrior Forum,
I`d receive emails from this so called guy Andy a few time when i sign up the first time and i did a bit more research on his information and nothing was adding up on the deal he had to offer to me so i left it as that and still get email from the same guy,
I`d enjoys reading all the comment from everyone here it`s amazing how small the world really is and when the peoples speak up about the truth of those fake scammers and crimes the real problem is we can never get rid of them they will always find another way to strike again and they do and they will do what ever it take to get what they want and they don`t really care who they go for,
As far i am concern a fake scammer will alway be a scammer and that very true and also there are true honest marketing out there but learn to do you`r home work first before buying anything, it a common thing to do for you`r own safety and you`r money ?

Hey Eric —
I wanted to let you know about a service called Project Honey Pot. It allows you to track and help catch spammers who harvest email addresses from your web pages, i reckon give this a shot to follow up on this for paul to track andy down ?
i`m a member and i use Project Honey Pot when i had a few problems with a hacker in u,s,a and i track down the hacker and guess what the hacker was so worry once i sent him an email and then reported him after i got his full information where about he was that was another scammer that tried the same thing on me ?
this is worth giving this a shot

> >http://www.projecthoneypot.org?rf=88320

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Dylan Loh March 18, 2011

Thanks for sharing your experience. Its really sad when someone does something like that. How long does he think he can sustain what he is doing? Does he even realize that it is not viable what he is doing? Hopefully he gets shut down by Paypal sooner then later!!

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Glenn March 18, 2011

Thanks for exposing the state of things here, Eric. In my experience, this type of individual has been more of the rule rather than the exception.

There are more scams out there than you can shake a stick at, and trying to find something or someone who isn’t a scammer – whether through info products that don’t actually contain viable info; programs that are supposed to be complete, containing all the “secrets”, holding nothing back, then completely glossing over details and lacking info on required resources; or individuals who claim to provide services but really don’t – is far more of a challenge than most people, especially newbies, would like to believe.

It’s a jungle of scammers out there, each one intent on fleecing newbies and those with more experience alike. I’ve run into everything from people who claim to drive traffic and then only run an auto-ping program for a set number of pings (after investigation I located and downloaded the auto-ping programs myself to play with and test them out), to hundreds of useless eBooks and audio programs that were a bit pricey, yet contained no useable info at all and could not produce the results they claimed to at all. Selling bogus information or incomplete info is one of the biggest scams out there, often asking an additional fee for “resale rights”, so others can perpetuate the scam as well and profit from the innocent and unknowing.

I’ve also run into individuals who have claimed to be newbies who have had great success in selling a product or service and claimed if they an do it, anyone can, then found out after falling for their story that they actually had a following of thousands of people who sign up under them in any business they join, and the new person is unable to replicate the success being flaunted, not having the advantage of a following which the scammer happily does not disclose in any marketing materials. There are a handful of these guys running around out there as well.

Not too long ago, I purchased a book that was supposed to be guaranteed to expose all the real ways to make money on the internet after exchanging emails with the author a few times. I was appalled to find it was filled with scams (or what is referred to as “black hat” techniques), including how to pretend to be a hot female looking to hook up, set up fake meets, and how to extract money via dating sites and chat programs. Personally, I was shocked, but the authors defense was that he was honest and legit because “every one of the techniques works and is a proven money maker”, despite every one of them being dishonest, deceiptful, and a scam of one kind or another.

Your Andy to me appears to simply be joining the crowd, and is not an exception at all, I’m sorry to say. It’s always good to see these low-life’s exposed, in any case, and providing some awareness of all the con games going on on the internet for the benefit of novices and those who somehow have been around for a while and yet remain unaware of the state of affairs as they really are.

All the best…

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Stanley March 18, 2011

Hi Guys, this sort of carrying on is not limited to online marketing, offline business practice also have crooks plying their victims on such a manner being treated as their business. These people know the law very well, may be they have been practicing law or are very well connected with law, and know how to evade prosecutions, and unfortunately sometimes the law is protecting them under limited company liability. They know their victims will have to spent a lot of time, and efforts trying to trace them, and most of the time is not worth their time and efforts, and will drop the case, and even if their victims pursuing to the authorities, their losses were too small to be bother to instigate an investigation, and these crooks knew that, it is a shame that this small groups so called business people has done enormous damage to this industries, and it is all down to greed. Our law and legal system are full of loopholes, only those with knowledge and experience will know how to exploit them, that is a fact of life, what we can do is learn from others and their mistakes, and be vigilant and mindful not to fall into their bates, every victims are the same to them, and they used temptation such as best offers, fast results, or anything that makes you feel it is most beneficial for you and hard to resist not to take part on their offer as a trap. That is the weakness of human nature, and these crooks use it to the full without fail, and is hard to prosecuting them because of the legal system is also part to be blame, it costing you a lot of money to go after them in which makes it not worth your while, and these crooks knows it, that is why they are so daring even admitting these crime openly because they know where they stands. Paypal may also part to be blame on harboring this sort of practice within their organization with rules that set out to protecting these crooks, in business you will always find corruptions because of money involved, and these crooks know their victims are having a hard time to proof their crime, so the only solution to this is not to be greedy, and never belief anything too good to be true, often these are the baits that lead to financial losses and suffering. Even you may have a fair idea who these people are, often there are lacking of proof by the victim, surely there are people in the circle who may know who this crooks are, but they either don’t want to be involve or may had been paid within their circle to stay quiet, that is the reality of what involve in business, full of trickiness and dirt if you are not alert, this are white collar crimes, unless there is an international body will stand up to act upon this criminal activities, and have international law and legal system to apply across all countries and borders to regulate and to enforce the internet business to comply, at present the law is as bad as their victims as they are all scattered and differs, and is worthless on protecting international consumers in particular on virtual commodities, such as one law apply to one state and not to another, that is why so many honest people has been conned. Unless the internet communities as a whole want something to be done, there is little credit in this industry as a main reason why 95% of people enter the market had failed. People were being robbed and have their money stolen legally under the protection of this commercial law world wide.
Sometimes even Government will turn a blind eye to these activities because of tax receive on profits, as long as these crooks can get away under the legislation of their states law, it is revenue needed for the country associated with business and wealth. No doubt this is an international problem, and require international efforts to solve these problems, only when the whole world and all nations is united will find an answer to stop this sinful human activities as we all recognized and accepted this is fraud. Anything requires you to pay upfront before you receive your goods and or services that involve small or large amount of money requires careful consideration and never judge the book on its cover, that is the golden rule and motto for good practice on all business venture.
I am Stanley Wong from Ireland, and what I had express is only represent my view and personal opinion, and is not directing any accusation to anyone nor towards any organizations or government bodies on any countries. My statement serve as my freedom of speech on subject relating to consumer rights that apply to physical and virtual goods or services alike on commercial or ecommerce trading world wide only.

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Howard Hill March 18, 2011

Andrew Tudor ihas also been spelled Andrew Tutor in the past I have seen both renditions mentioned over the years he is not a new scammer by any means he has been at this for at least 5 years that I am aware of. I check everyone out before I give them a dime not because I am paranoid but I have lost my share of money over the past 15 years to scammers since I started checking everyone out first I went from losing a couple hundred a year to losing nothing a year.

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Lloyd C. Kenfield March 18, 2011

I hope people like John Paul Raygozza and “Success Rate”, and his other cohorts get theirs. While I have trouble understanding and folowing through on instructions I was shocked to find out he is money laundering and racketeering. You are absoltely right about sowing and reaping.

Lloyd

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Valorie March 18, 2011

Eric, thank you for so ethically exposing some of the methods scammers use. THANKS also for being one of the good guys! I’ve been following you since Joel’s Internet Millionaire and I feel blessed that there are fellow Coloradans like you in the IM world leading the way!! I’m STILL a 57-yr-old newbie and am confident I will make all this work, especially with Christian mentors like you on the internet. My current personal situation is truly as bad or worse than the scammer’s purported tale of woe. Admittedly, I find myself very tempted to fall for the Push Button offers so I can make $50/day, etc. etc. Exposing this scammer’s methods will certainly help me to also think before I act on JV ventures sometime in my future. Keep up the great work! Bless you, dear Eric!

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Steve Schmidt March 18, 2011

A guy going by the name ‘Monta’ on WF scammed me out of $500 for 2 solo ads. The thread is here: ( http://bit.ly/fraud-forum-proof ).

This has ruined my trust of anyone offering solo ads, unless they are established and have a reputation to protect.

I’ve recently started using the Directory of Ezines to find solo ad providers, as it seems to be a safer way to go, but we shall see.

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Lloyd C. Kenfield March 18, 2011

Thank you for sharing. It is very helpful. Keep up the good work.

Lloyd C. Kenfield

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charles March 18, 2011

It is good to learn of scammers, but

Hey has Internet Marketing become holier than thou, has greed and gold become the god to bend the knee to, I think the biggest con artists are those that create optin lists then have a software do their bidding by delivering emails, knowing that someone is going to give them money on a product that is in most cases really worthless.

Then bragging of the thousands they made last month

When you shop at any local store do they stick a cookie on you [ NO ] so why does it happen on the internet.

Take a look at the state of the world, do you honestly believe that GOD is going to let sin control the world.

I believe there are two beast mentioned in the bible and one of them is the internet, and we have been warned to come out of it.

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charles March 18, 2011

What’s in a name but figure [TUDOR] as english as they come.

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sergio March 18, 2011

Hi Eric,

I take my hat off to you for exposing this scammer.He almost sounds like he is doing… some sort of community service.

I also received a lot of strange emails about safe swapping lately, most from Europe…hint.

Could this be someone that proudly calls himself…Money Mike and ripped hundreds (maybe thousands) of people off with a magic software called Auto Commission Bot? Who knows.

I am proud of being part of your list and if you keep your integrity I will be part of your list for a long time

Sergio

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