Confessions of an Internet Marketing Scammer

By Eric | March 17, 2011

Recently my friend Paul Counts was duped by a scammer who is targeting Internet marketers.

In case you don’t know Paul, he’s proven himself to be one of the “good guys” in our industry, who upholds integrity and treats his customers right. It seems like it’s often the good people who fall prey to scammers, because they tend to trust people.

There are always plenty of scams happening online, and I’ve been scammed a few times myself. It’s NOT fun, and to be a victim is one of the worst feelings you can experience. Most people can probably relate to this at some point in their life.

What makes this story unique from the millions is that the scammer actually CONFESSED his scam and told Paul some of the details of his scamming methods.

In spite of confessing to one of his victims, I do not believe the scammer has been caught, and I DO believe he’s still perpetuating his scams. I’d like to share the details with you, so that you can be aware of this particular scam, as well as gain insight that may help you avoid other scams in the future.

DETAILS OF THE SCAM

The scammer posted an ad in a popular Internet marketing forum, advertising an “ad swap”. He claimed to have an opt-in list of 35k subscribers, whom he would email for his side of the swap. The other marketer participating in the swap would email his/her list on behalf of the scammer first.

Unfortunately, the scammer did not have a list. He was duping Internet marketers into sending out his promotions, in exchange for nothing.

VARIATION OF THE SCAM:

An ad was posted in the Warrior Forum advertising a “solo ad” to a 50k opt-in list, for $287. Several Internet marketers bought this offer, but received nothing in return.

One victim was Socrates Socratous, a well-known Internet marketer who paid $500 in a deal with the above scammer, and $450 to another (or maybe the same) scammer the same day.

Due to the nature of the scam, I think it is very possible that Paul’s scammer is the same guy.

PAUL’S PLEA TO THE SCAMMER:

After the scammer failed to fulfill his end of the deal, Paul sent him this email:

Hello Andy,

I really wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt here, but the longer it is taking you to respond to me really tells me that you probably didn’t intend to hold up your end of the deal and promote for me. I hope I am wrong here, but your screen shot showed my offer qued up and it should have taken you just a few minutes to check on what happened. Instead it is terribly apparent that you deleted my ad after you sent me the screen shot. Again, correct me if I am wrong here about this situation.

My main point is that we setup a solo ad as something that is mutually beneficial for both of us. I ended up just promoting your squeeze page and building your list with my valued subscribers, and in return I got nothing from you. My goal with ad swaps is to also build up mutually beneficial JV relationships where I promoted your products in the future and such.

I like to work with people and recommend people and offer that I can trust myself. Please forgive me for the harsh tone here, but Andy I am sure you can understand my position here.

I really hope that I am wrong and that we can resolve this issue soon.

Thanks,

Paul

THE SCAMMER’S CONFESSION

Here is his reply to Paul’s email. I have highighted certain portions to draw attention to them…

From: Andrew Tudor
Date: Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: Ad Swap – From Warrior Forum
To: Paul Counts

Hi Paul,

You are entirely correct! The reason I did this is because I don’t possess a list of 35,000 subscribers. I also understand exactly what you are saying about building a mutually beneficial JV relationship and I do apologize if I have caused you any inconvenience, I completely understand your position and you have every right to take a harsh tone, I should say that I am surprised that you consider your tone to be currently harsh because I know that many would be quite pissed off in this situation, I respect your reasonable attitude and yes initially I had no intention to hold my end of the deal, simply because it wasn’t possible for me and if I could have, then of course I would have, hey… at least I am being honest here and not continuing to provide you with BS as I am sure many others would.

You are obviously an intelligent man and everything you said was entirely correct. I have been scamming people on the Warrior Forum with solo ads, which they paid for, in your case I think you have lost less, or at least I really hope so because I understand what you say about trust and providing me with opt-ins, but I am still happy to send your ad out for you as it’s already evident to you that I am trying to build a list here. The guys who have been scammed were sent emails to confirm, however most were actually reasonable and as I made sense of the situation and explained that PayPal disputes would not work and that they could open them and I explained that I would just win and walk away, however I did request that those who wanted another option could avoid this by instead being reasonable with me about it and understanding my situation.

My name is not Andy Tudor, I have actually been in IM a very long time but have only just at this point started trying to aquire a list. Now, I really hate scamming or dishonest business, but recently hit a very hard financial time stuck deep in debt and having my family to provide for which is my 4 year old daughter Jasmine and partner Annie, I have gone down the dishonest route which has not been pleasant, but it provided me with what I required in the current circumstances.

So yeah, the solo ads would have done that alone but I wanted swaps because I wanted to get started with a list and then possibly start working my way up, the problem is with solo ads that many of my customers have complained that they can’t find good solo ads anywhere, so even though I considered this option for starting my list, this put me off.

Now I am not going to lie to you, as talking any more BS won’t get me any further so I might as well be honest here, I have never had to actually reply to any emails regarding swaps yet but I am sure I will have even more soon. The problem here is it’s indeed true that I have been unfair here, and I don’t know exactly what to say because on solo ads if I am to simply leave with a customers money then they have that to lose and by considering the fact they have nothing to lose by hearing me out and waiting for me to build my list so that I can eventually send out their ads is beneficial to them, and I do indeed intend to send out every one of them ads, for the customers that decided to not take what I said into consideration, they opened the disputes and soon after realized that I won them because it was a virtual good, I even explained this to them before but it’s their own fault for not listening on that.

I work through many different identities and own a VERY large amount of websites, this includes forums, membership sites, squeeze pages, product sales pages and quite a bit more. So the point I am trying to make is, that I could just return under a different identity anyway Paul, and I currently have another 58 swaps this week using many different identities. I have revealed my real name to many of the solo ad buyers and shown them my work.

So what exactly do I want? – Ideally, being beneficial to both of us here, I would like to at least offer to send out your ad when I have established an adequate sized list instead of running off with your subscribers, I don’t see the harm in you taking up this offer? – Also, I feel that contacts are far better to have with internet marketing and although I have been slightly influenced by other scammers and my situation, I really dislike working in this dishonest way.

So here you have the full truth, I can’t really explain much further and of course if you find it unacceptable, well that’s up to you really isn’t it? – However, consider my offer because I ask nothing in return, you have provided your side of the deal and when I can, I would feel better if I could return what you have offered rather than running away. Considering, either way will not really bother me too much, I think you are a good person and you certainly don’t deserve this, I am sorry.

I have many skills that lead to me becoming involved in internet marketing, I also am quite knowledgable on the subject and offer any advice. I understand my wrong-doing here, but theres no need to treat me like I don’t understand exactly what I am doing, this is all well planned and I know exactly what I am doing here, So now in regards to my last statement marked in “bold” font: What exactly do you want? – By all means let me know, as I wish to provide whatever I can on my end and remember Paul that this doesn’t mean you should go thinking you are better than myself for example, sure you carry out business in a more honest way but what I mean is, before you go refusing my offer and complaining, the solution here is to simply be reasonable with me because maybe I have something of benefit to you – I hope so anyway.

Best,
Andy

After Paul replied to the above email (the reply is not included here, as I don’t feel it’s necessary), “Andy” the scammer decided to add to his confession in another email to Paul, which is excerpted below…

Hi Paul,

I do have a list, it’s just not 35,000 subscribers at all, I have done lot’s of work in photoshop, website design and sony vegas, basically for the AWeber screenshot I simply used firebug in Firefox to modify the code and took the screenshot, of course if I wanted to I could have managed with photoshop fine but it just pointlessly takes that little bit longer and of course when I modify code, I don’t usually have to worry about anything being out of place even by 1 pixel, unless I make a mistake but that’s never happend so far. It’s like the ClickBank login videos that you see, some may appear very realistic but it’s a simple job of matching the frames between 2 different clips, I do understand that theres a safe-swaps site if you want to find swaps more safely but I had even questioned that immediately to the fact I could program a bot to enter email addresses into a form and then verfiy that I have a large list, I have never done so because I see it as a waste of time and I would be paying increased AWeber charges for fake/bot generated email addresses…

(Andy)

(UPDATE: Added 03/18/11, 1:35PM)
After posting this to my blog, I received another of Andy’s confessionals, which was received by Internet marketer Socrates Socratous. Socrates was scammed by Andy Tudor, and by Dave Rivera (aka Monta on the Warrior Forum), who may or may not be the same person.

Socrates submitted PayPal disputes, which were ruled in favor of the scammers by PayPal (due to the digital goods loophole). After Andy won the dispute, he sent this email to Socrates:

Well, it appears I have won that dispute… so I have changed my mind. The NO REFUNDZ policy now applies.

I look forward working with you again in the future, I will spend the more wisely, don’t worry!

I am going to enjoy a nice cigar, which might seem a waste of money but it’s just to celebrate your failure, the sweet and smokey taste of success..

It’s only $450 man, it’s not much at all, but I guess with all the others out there that I clearly SCAMMED, it all adds up at the end of each and every day!

You are indeed the idiot that fell into the scamtrap. How’s that for disrespect? – You think your money was enough? No, please… it’s the pure enjoyment of scamming you that makes it worthwhile.

I suggest you get onto your credit card company Socrates, it’s obviously a bad sign if you had to use a CREDIT card to purchase a solo ad, what’s wrong? Out of money? I hope you starve.

Best Regards,
Andy

Subsequently, Socrates did file a complaint with his credit card company, and DID receive his money back through a chargeback.
(End of updated section)

CONCLUSION

I could give a lot of my own commentary here about…

…how the scammer justifies his actions by his circumstances, and his “good conscience”…

…how he arrogantly talks of winning Paypal disputes, and has the guts to blame his victims for not listening to him…

…how he is STILL trying to scam Paul and CONTROL the situation in his emails, and even goes so far as to compare himself to Paul…

…the fact that he “feels bad” about it, yet has another 58 VICTIMS lined up already in the next week under his various scammer aliases…

But I’ll leave the bulk of the commentary to you. Please post your comments below.

And most importantly, beware of scammers like “Andy”. As the scammer himself confessed: Anything on your computer screen could be fake. Just because something looks real, that doesn’t mean it’s real.

At the same time, not everything is fake. There are plenty of legitimate opportunities, and there’s plenty of money to be made online. So take this knowledge and apply it to your personal “filter”, as you determine what’s real and what’s not.

Have a great day!

(UPDATE: Added 03/21/11, 2:40PM)

Just a quick update to let everyone know that Mike Filsaime has contacted his rep at PayPal to notify them about the scammer, and PayPal has confirmed that their risk department is taking care of the scammer’s accounts. Thanks Mike. The guys at AWeber have also been notified, and I was told that their security department is handling it as well.

406 thoughts on “Confessions of an Internet Marketing Scammer”

Omar March 18, 2011

This guy should be sent straight to jail.
No if’s and’s or but’s.
It’s a shame.

This kind of stuff is exactly why we’ve built IMtrustworthy.

Omar

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Quotes by John Wooden March 18, 2011

In reading his response, it seemed to me to be a rather clever con man. He felt he could further fleece the mark, and was setting it up. If he is instead honest, I would tell him that he owes me, and leave it at that. Maybe he will one day become honest, and pay back his victims.

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sex March 18, 2011

sex

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Mark Fisher March 18, 2011

This is sickening.
I’ve done quite a few “blind” ad swaps and these have always paid off for me.
Next time, I’m going to set up reporting first so people can see that I’m sending them real traffic.

– Mark

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Terry W Clark March 18, 2011

Hi Eric

This guy-Andy- is a liar when he said he was sorry. I know better, if he said I apologies to you Paul, he might be stating the truth, but if he is the scam er he says he is I wouldn’t believe a word he says. Besides, how do you know if his name is Andy Tudor.

Don’t work with him, he is a crook!!!

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Aaron Moragani March 18, 2011

I am not surprised by this….heck for all we know…this letter is fake and is an attempt to gain our sympathy and lower our defenses to Eric. I believe the answer is simple…We should and must police ourselves and we when ferret out a scammer….Stone him or her….but that’s just my opinion.

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TPJaveton March 18, 2011

Remarkable story, Eric. Thanks for sharing it.

Either this scammer thinks he’s untouchable, or he doesn’t care about existing laws against his actions. Either way, he should be put out of business; More for his brazen arrogance than for the actual crime because, ultimately, he’s saying to others like him ‘hey look what I did, you can probably do it too’. Everyone commenting on this post, remember the name Andrew Tudor! “Trust but verify”, although a political term, might be a good creed by which to interact on the Web.

TPJ-

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Dani Vlad March 18, 2011

Hi Eric!

Thank you so much for exposing this “Andy” spammer guy and for your bold comments. I have known Paul for several years now and even worked with him on a project before. All I can say about him is that he is legit, very honest and will always go out of his way to make it right.

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Claudia March 18, 2011

Hi Eric,
Thanks for giving this alert on “Andy.” I recently bought a course which teaches how to do ad swaps to build a list…but I have been too untrusting to try it. I have been scammed several times already. I still believe in online business and want to be a legitimate business woman and Internet Marketer. Wouldn’t it be nice if there were some way to check up on people who want to get into IM? Of course, there are always a few bad apples that seem to want to spoil everything for the rest of us. One thing I have come to know is that I can trust you. I hope people reading this blog will realize that you are top shelf. Please keep passing on alerts and maybe even a list of marketers who are “white hatters” so we can choose more wisely.

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Emmanuel Adegbola March 18, 2011

Hi Eric,
Thanks for the info, i have been duped many times even myself, can you imagine one of the top pirated IM guru put up ads for 10 million mega email, guess what, i had only 10 clicks- – -funny? Another one for 35k list, no respond, no refund and so on. Sometimes i don’t even know who to trust again.
All the info product now is about money money and money, how they make 40k, 100k in a month and after ordering the junks, they are same old same old.

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Aldo March 18, 2011

Hi Eric,
I think I have been scammed so many times I think it is just Pot Luck now.
I have a list of scammers but am thinking about what to do with it. I would like to wait until I have more success myself and then organise personal visits to these people.
I have a strong sense of justice, Like Judge Dread !!
Thanks Eric for the email.
Aldo

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Claudia March 18, 2011

Incidently…The Stripped Down Profits product was very bad…I don’t like the sales pitches that don’t say what the product really IS that is actually being sold. For example, a “revolutionary traffic getting monster software” turns out to be a keyword finder tool…what a disappointment! and then the OTO on the backend is a product you asked for a refund for last week!!! The same old crap in a different package. I also think Clickbank should start policing what they allow to be launched from their site before they lose their reputation, too. My latest experience with them has been products being launched before they are ready…it’s OK if you tell the customer the software is “beta” – it’s another thing to launch when the whole offer hasn’t even been put together…the downloads don’t work, the videos are “coming” and so on.
If I see any of that…I ask for a refund right away.

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Gloria March 18, 2011

Good looking out, Eric. So many people are running scared because of finances and opting-in to anything. It is so sad, but true that fear of loss will cause unprincipled people to do anything. That’s why I refuse to be rushed, cajoled into anything that I am not sure of nor anything I don’t understand. It is the wise who get understanding before jumping into anything. Making money can cloud vision; if allowed.

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Claudia March 18, 2011

And Here’s one more thought…I remember one of your first lessons Eric where you say having your own product is the best way to make money online. Affiliate marketing or promoting other products from Clickbank or other networks is a bit of a crap shoot. You should always buy the product and check it out before you recommend it…otherwise you may be recommending something like the shotty products mentioned.

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Valorie March 18, 2011

oooops…my bad! “Joel and YOUR Internet Millionaire…”

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Jim March 18, 2011

How can we be sure that the emails you’re citing above were not created just to discredit this guy?

However, I would like to point out that the same website offered a football betting system (Slicer’s Bet) that it claimed would earn 100% profit. The product turned out to be very dangerous and certainly not 100% certain to win.

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cris March 18, 2011

This isn’t really sad or surprising. The more you get into the IM industry the more of this sort of thing you see. People get scammed out of their money for solo ads on the warrior forum all the time. The desperation to build a big list will lead people to throwing money around and ultimately getting scammed.

Though this guy’s admission was surprising, the reality of it is that he’ll get away with it scot free and probably go onto make a lot of money on the back of building up that big list nice and easily, not to mention the cash he’s got out of his scam as well.

I can bet you anything that you’ll start seeing a new ‘name’ up on the $37 clickbank product JV leaderboards over the next few months. It’s gonna be this guy with his new shiny list.

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Annie March 18, 2011

I am not shocked nor surprised. Most of the people on the net who are selling stuff are liars and thieves. Of course they are! That is kind of what “selling” is; is it not? A salesperson coerces another to take the bait so that s/he (the salesperson) can benefit. How many really care what happens after they get a person’s money? I haven’t met many. If there were a lot of sales people who delivered on their promises – a lot more people would be “quitting their J.O.B.s!!”.

Thank you for such a blunt eye-opener, Eric. I did notice that “Andy” was attempting to manipulate Paul again, and also that he attempted to blame the people from which he stole. He’s got the manners of a typical sociopath. Frankly, I wouldn’t do business with anyone whose lack of English skills is such an atrocity. Thanks again for showing us all what it’s mostly about.

By the way, I am not the “Annie” he referred to. I’ve never stolen anything in my life. Maybe that’s why I’ve never made any money from the net. *shrug*.

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Jeff - Performance Marketing March 18, 2011

Here here… it is more then possible and certainly considered theft under?? or in this case could actually be theft over since he is admitting to multiple scams..

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Nick March 18, 2011

I have been doing adswaps for over a year now and have been mislead by some saying that they can send 1k unique and went ahead with the swap as usual only to be short changed.

But this tops the cake!

There is a lot more happening out there in the lead generation arena than most know… and many scams are not as transparent as the one you expose.

So, if I can be blunt and I will. Do your own due diligence and be prepared to take steps to protect your assets!

TIPs to help protect yourself from scammers.

1. Do test mailings with new people you partner with.

2. Always ask where you can sign up to their list.

3. Start out with an acceptable loss strategy

4. Scrutinize without exposing you are. Most people are generally good people so you don’t want to offend them =)

5. Get recommendations from people you know to get an extra layer of piece of mind.

6. Treat adswaps and Solo ads as an extension of your business. Those that do this business know there is potential for great returns

7. ALWAYS ALWAYS see what you are mailing to… Remember this is your list and they will judge you poorly or rightly depending on the offers you send them to – free or paid!

Eric… Let me sum up this deceiver with three words… what a wanker!

cheers
~ Nick

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Newheart March 18, 2011

It’s a crying shame that a few bad apples spoil the IM reputation and cause such disruption in your business. It doesn’t matter if it is on the Internet, a local or global business, they are all around, lying, cheating and stealing from honest folks trying to make a living. Folks like this will eventually cause so many regulations to put in place that it will be very difficult for any of us to make money online, it won’t be worth the hassle having to jump through all of the government hoops and red tape. Let’s find them and string them up!

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Nick March 18, 2011

Do I foresee a new novel? =)

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Parveen March 18, 2011

Hi Eric
Thanks for your useful insight. I know this has been a growing problem for all IM. It is a shame, other than a quick background check there isn’t much that can be done about these guys. But I think everyone has been scammed at some point which makes you realize the good guys. I have started using Scam.com, along with Google to check out anything dubious.
Look forward to your next installment!

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Nick March 18, 2011

Yes, Paul I agree with your statement about doing swaps with people you know… that is a great strategy.

When looking for new adswap partners I like to ask people that I have been swapping with to recommend honest people. Works like a charm! =)

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Dominck Savillo March 18, 2011

Well this story surely does not surprise me. I’ve heard of that scam before and many varitions of it. Too bad some people feel they have a right to victim others. I truly hope he gets what he deserves, a jail cell.

But I dought it will ever happen. He may not even be within the United States, how would Paul be able to make a case againist him unless Paypal supported Paul.

“Caveat Emptor” Everybody!

Cross check everything you can about new contacts your about to do business with. Google them and get positive feedback from people you already know and respect.

Thanks Eric for taking the time to remind us all to keep our guard up!

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Theodore Hall March 18, 2011

Eric,
Thanks for bringing this to everyone’s attention. Too bad there isn’t some way to bring justice to someone like “Andy”. Ted Hall

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Mr. Ben March 18, 2011

Open his emails in an email reader that will allow you to see the full headers. These will enable you to trace the email back to where it originates from. If the email was sent using yahoo or any other similar web mail system, look for the originating IP address.

You can then go to senderbase.org and where it says, ‘Look up your network:’ see what information that will give you.

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Eric Post authorMarch 18, 2011

Me too. Also it should be pretty easy to track down the AWeber account. I’m friends with the guys at AWeber, so I’ll see what I can do in that regard.

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Eric Post authorMarch 18, 2011

As Chris said, it is a loophole. BUT I will add to that… the loophole does not cover scamming. PayPal DOES keep track of disputes, and if you have too many, it will raise red flags with them. If those disputes are escalated to PayPal staff, it will happen all the sooner. PayPal would much rather shut down someone’s account than risk doing business with a scammer, so Kitty is right– victims SHOULD still open PayPal disputes.

(On a side note: If you’re doing business with a reputable party, like me, please do not use PayPal disputes for refund requests. I have a helpdesk and a customer service email address to handle refund requests. If you’re doing business with someone and their normal customer service channels are not helping you, that would be a time to file a dispute.)

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Joel March 18, 2011

Hi Eric,

The worst thing is that this scammer guy (Andrew Tudor) looks like he have a lot of technical skills, so instead of scaming people, why he doesn´t offer his services as a freelancer?.

Thanks for the information

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Eric Post authorMarch 18, 2011

I’m glad that one got shut down. Although I was repulsed by the sales page, I did check it out from an investigative standpoint after seeing it promoted by some well-known marketers. It was obvious to me that “Haley’s” story was concocted by a copywriter (who also happens to be well known in the industry). I was also slightly surprised to see Oli Tee (a top ClickBank vendor/affiliate and broker behind many top CB launches) was the guy behind Stripped Down Profits. It actually caused me to nearly lose faith in ClickBank (of which I am a top-100 vendor), so I’m really glad they pulled it.

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JIMBO March 18, 2011

Thanks for the heads up! Even the most astute biz-man gets “nailed” periodically. However, things have a way of evening out long term.
The mills of the gods grind slowly; yet they grind exceedingly fine.

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Eric Post authorMarch 18, 2011

Melissa- that was a cached copy of the page, and the order button is not live. However, I removed the link from your post, because the exit splash page is still live, and we don’t need to be building those guys email list 😉

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Rob March 18, 2011

Hi Eric,
Sad to see such braziness openly but not really
surprising.Also what about the adswap partners
who only mail out to their unresponsive lists of freebie seekers in return for your responsive buyers mailings for them? Unannounced upsells, false scarcity, and incomplete tutorials? The list goes on and will only get bigger.

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Steven Keltsch March 18, 2011

Hey Eric,
I talked to Paul at Ken McArthur JV Alert. And, you are right. Paul is one of the good ones. The short time we spent over the weekend I came to know Paul is a caring Christian. If Andy would have been honest in the begining, I am sure any of us would be willing to help. But you have to bring something to the table. Lies and dishonesty is not going to cut it. Many are hurting, because of this terrible Recession. Better to spread hope and love in stand of lies and deception.

Steven Keltsch

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Veronica March 18, 2011

I read somewhere that every profession in the world has at least 5% of its members/employees who are “bad eggs!” Which is why we sometimes read about bank managers embezzeling funds, or the misdeeds of crooked cops. Not surprising then that IM has the occasional deceiver on the prowl.

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Eric Post authorMarch 18, 2011

Thanks Jason. Congrats! That’s awesome. We’re expecting our 5th this summer, so you’ll have to play catch up once again 😉

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Wendy March 18, 2011

Wow, this is really rough. I have not had this problem as I have not yet started building my list.

The fact that this person really needs the money (if that is even true) does not make what he is doing right. How many people has he scammed that are out of work and may also really need the money.

I have known Paul for a while now through subscription to his lists and having several products and programs he’s involved in.

It’s really a shame that this kind of thing can happen to such good people.

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Mk Akan March 18, 2011

It will be very sad that something like this is allowed to countinues to happen online….this guy needs to be stopped and taken out.
The lesson here is ,We all have to be careful online.
Sorry Paul..he will reap what he sowwed …Karma is not asleep.

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P. JACKSON March 18, 2011

Hellow,

Thanks for the warning. I’m very new at this and now feel really sad that someone would dip so low to get traffic. I really need traffic but I have to live with my actions. Sorry this happened. It helps me with doing the right thing. To draw the right energy my way. Take care. We need to LOVE MORE.

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Disgusted March 18, 2011

As my nickname says. I have had my fair share of scams before making sense that is possible – even – to make a living over the Internet but this is a “Big One”. Never ever imagined 2011 had such gems to offer. Stripped Down Profits is nothing at the comparison.

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Jeffrey S Wyrick March 18, 2011

This is exactly the reason why people are so scared to do ad swaps and pay for legitimate solo ads these days. Guys like this offer you so much and then deliver little or nothing at all. Over the past couple of years my buddy Ken and I have worked with some great guys and done some really nice things, both sending out solo ads for people and working with mutually beneficial swaps.

Then we see guys like this who don’t care, just want to take advantage of people any way he can and all for money ? ? ? Really ? ? ?

I suspect it’s more than that, maybe he thinks it’s funny or has grown bored working for a living, so he’s laughing at those who are still making an effort while he STEALS their money or takes advantage of a one way ad swap.

These people may seem honest or seem to have good intentions, but if we’re not careful guys like this fake Andy character have proven that it can and will happen to almost anyone, even an honest marketer with good intentions.

As for Paul, for any of those who are reading, he and his partner are both great guys and to see anyone treat them this was is just sad, but to see the arrogance in this persons replies takes it to a whole new level. I hope that none of the people reading this ever have to deal with this kind of situation, but if you’re sending out ad swaps or paying for solo ads be careful. If this guy can get to Paul who’s a seasoned marketer, he can get to ANY of us!

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Daryl Austman March 18, 2011

Eric, as you can see that “1” little email and post has rocketed around the internet world in record time… and has set off a few alarms in a few peoples minds about being more alert to this type of scam.

Thanks again for bringing this to light and giving us the power to let our IM friends/buddies know about it. I’ve sent a bunch of people here as obviously others have so… GOOD information does spread fast.

Glad to say I know some ethical internet marketers. I enjoy educating my followers and friends about the “good guys” like yourself and many others in these comments.

Cheers!

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Doc Durdin March 18, 2011

Greetings all,
I have so much to do as such Im not one to spend time responding to chatter of the Warriors Forum, although I do enjoy researching there. Eric, is one of few that I even open mail for because I believe he is one of a handful with good intention.

Like many, I have been scammed but took it as a valuable lesson to be on guard. I will only deal with verifiable merchants and pay for results. If I can not pay with a protection source,then I don’t need your service.

The bigger crooks to me are the ones with the power to destroy hard working folks who have helped to build their business and are now being cast aside like trash. Google and EBay are two of the biggest offenders who falsely use “quality content” as an excuse to pretend they are not peddling wares, while slapping us with a label of being scammers. The fact is, they spy on your stats and if they feel you are making to much they have the power to limit or outright kill your business. I for one would like to see all marketers fight back against these power brokers.

Cheers, Doc

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Jason Dinner March 18, 2011

Wow man!! You guys will have a basketball team now hahaha. We both need to get another hobby that keeps us away from our ladies 😛

I’m done for sure this time around. We’ll have to kick each other in the mid section area real hard next time we meet up. hahaha

Congrats to you guys as well 😀

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Allan March 18, 2011

Reading that message from that Andy guy was like getting inside the head of a sociopath. He had everything arranged neatly in place within his distorted psyche to justify his predatory behavior. A true bottom feeder.

The real tragedy is that this disturbed person is preying on the trust of others and in effect taking a quality that makes us human and turning it into a vulnerability. People like that in essence rob others of that very quality that makes us human.

Our best defense is to make sure they don’t succeed by destroying our capacity to trust. That doesn’t mean we can’t be cautious, but it does mean protecting our ability to trust.

People like “Andy” eventually end up consumed by their own end-justifies-the-means fanaticism. Their minds are obsessed with the gap between what they have and what they want, so they feel justified in doing whatever it takes to get to the end. They try hard to convince themselves that they’re benefiting from it, but in reality they’re fanning a fire within themselves that robs them of the success they’re desperately trying to obtain and it eventually consumes them. You can sense this happening with Andy in what he wrote. Here you have a guy who has “actually been in IM a very long time”, however he is consumed by debt and has driven himself to desperation. No matter what he tries, his situation will only worsen. He’s digging his own grave and doesn’t even realize it.

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Foufine March 18, 2011

Mary, my heart goes out to you. I too I’m trying to get something going and it’s hard. Don’t get discouraged, if you got a good product you’ll get something back in the end.

And maybe some day, you will create a wildly successful e-book “How I got scammed and what I did to survive it” … 😉

Best wishes !!!

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James March 18, 2011

To take it a step further here. When I provide my e-mail address to anyone thru their opt in or squeeze page or any other method to your list, you have already assured me that you “respect” my privacy and will not sell or trade my info with anyone else. Therefore trading or swapping of e-mail lists is already a violation of my rights in the 1st place.

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Socrates Socratous March 18, 2011

Paul showed me this blog post so I thought I ‘d pop in a give you all an update and my side of the story.

on the same night I purchased 2 “solo” ads from 2 different threads on the warrior forum.

one was for $450 for 3 mailins by some guy who called himeself “ANDY TUDOR”
Merchant information from paypal:
Nancy Cole
payments@gpredatorsystem.com

and the other was $500 for 2 mailings by some one who goes by: “DAVE RIVERA”
Merchant information from paypal:
MR T A R Cassell
montarivera@gmail.com

They both turned out to be FAKE. and I believe they are the same person, as I started seeing similarities to the way they both responded to my emails (after the fact)

Paypal dispute was denied and was ruled to the favor of the scammers. I tried to resolve this with paypal to no avail. They said they “keep an eye on them” but they wouldnt return the money.

However, I had purposely used a business credit card account to pay this so I got the money back through a chargeback.

Here is the most interesting part of all this (I have never seen a scammer do this before)

This is the last email he sent me after he had won the dispute:

====
Well, it appears I have won that dispute… so I have changed my mind. The NO REFUNDZ policy now applies.

I look forward working with you again in the future, I will spend the more wisely, don’t worry!

I am going to enjoy a nice cigar, which might seem a waste of money but it’s just to celebrate your failure, the sweet and smokey taste of success..

It’s only $450 man, it’s not much at all, but I guess with all the others out there that I clearly SCAMMED, it all adds up at the end of each and every day!

You are indeed the idiot that fell into the scamtrap. How’s that for disrespect? – You think your money was enough? No, please… it’s the pure enjoyment of scamming you that makes it worthwhile.

I suggest you get onto your credit card company Socrates, it’s obviously a bad sign if you had to use a CREDIT card to purchase a solo ad, what’s wrong? Out of money? I hope you starve.

Best Regards,
Andy
=====

It is sad that paypal continues to allow people to exploit their system for obvious scams.

Hope this helps someone,
Best,
-Socrates Socratous

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Eric Post authorMarch 18, 2011

The type of swap referred to here, is not swapping the actual lists or email addresses. The way it works, is the marketer emails his OWN list, sending a promotion for the other marketer in the swap.

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