Confessions of an Internet Marketing Scammer

By Eric | March 17, 2011

Recently my friend Paul Counts was duped by a scammer who is targeting Internet marketers.

In case you don’t know Paul, he’s proven himself to be one of the “good guys” in our industry, who upholds integrity and treats his customers right. It seems like it’s often the good people who fall prey to scammers, because they tend to trust people.

There are always plenty of scams happening online, and I’ve been scammed a few times myself. It’s NOT fun, and to be a victim is one of the worst feelings you can experience. Most people can probably relate to this at some point in their life.

What makes this story unique from the millions is that the scammer actually CONFESSED his scam and told Paul some of the details of his scamming methods.

In spite of confessing to one of his victims, I do not believe the scammer has been caught, and I DO believe he’s still perpetuating his scams. I’d like to share the details with you, so that you can be aware of this particular scam, as well as gain insight that may help you avoid other scams in the future.

DETAILS OF THE SCAM

The scammer posted an ad in a popular Internet marketing forum, advertising an “ad swap”. He claimed to have an opt-in list of 35k subscribers, whom he would email for his side of the swap. The other marketer participating in the swap would email his/her list on behalf of the scammer first.

Unfortunately, the scammer did not have a list. He was duping Internet marketers into sending out his promotions, in exchange for nothing.

VARIATION OF THE SCAM:

An ad was posted in the Warrior Forum advertising a “solo ad” to a 50k opt-in list, for $287. Several Internet marketers bought this offer, but received nothing in return.

One victim was Socrates Socratous, a well-known Internet marketer who paid $500 in a deal with the above scammer, and $450 to another (or maybe the same) scammer the same day.

Due to the nature of the scam, I think it is very possible that Paul’s scammer is the same guy.

PAUL’S PLEA TO THE SCAMMER:

After the scammer failed to fulfill his end of the deal, Paul sent him this email:

Hello Andy,

I really wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt here, but the longer it is taking you to respond to me really tells me that you probably didn’t intend to hold up your end of the deal and promote for me. I hope I am wrong here, but your screen shot showed my offer qued up and it should have taken you just a few minutes to check on what happened. Instead it is terribly apparent that you deleted my ad after you sent me the screen shot. Again, correct me if I am wrong here about this situation.

My main point is that we setup a solo ad as something that is mutually beneficial for both of us. I ended up just promoting your squeeze page and building your list with my valued subscribers, and in return I got nothing from you. My goal with ad swaps is to also build up mutually beneficial JV relationships where I promoted your products in the future and such.

I like to work with people and recommend people and offer that I can trust myself. Please forgive me for the harsh tone here, but Andy I am sure you can understand my position here.

I really hope that I am wrong and that we can resolve this issue soon.

Thanks,

Paul

THE SCAMMER’S CONFESSION

Here is his reply to Paul’s email. I have highighted certain portions to draw attention to them…

From: Andrew Tudor
Date: Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: Ad Swap – From Warrior Forum
To: Paul Counts

Hi Paul,

You are entirely correct! The reason I did this is because I don’t possess a list of 35,000 subscribers. I also understand exactly what you are saying about building a mutually beneficial JV relationship and I do apologize if I have caused you any inconvenience, I completely understand your position and you have every right to take a harsh tone, I should say that I am surprised that you consider your tone to be currently harsh because I know that many would be quite pissed off in this situation, I respect your reasonable attitude and yes initially I had no intention to hold my end of the deal, simply because it wasn’t possible for me and if I could have, then of course I would have, hey… at least I am being honest here and not continuing to provide you with BS as I am sure many others would.

You are obviously an intelligent man and everything you said was entirely correct. I have been scamming people on the Warrior Forum with solo ads, which they paid for, in your case I think you have lost less, or at least I really hope so because I understand what you say about trust and providing me with opt-ins, but I am still happy to send your ad out for you as it’s already evident to you that I am trying to build a list here. The guys who have been scammed were sent emails to confirm, however most were actually reasonable and as I made sense of the situation and explained that PayPal disputes would not work and that they could open them and I explained that I would just win and walk away, however I did request that those who wanted another option could avoid this by instead being reasonable with me about it and understanding my situation.

My name is not Andy Tudor, I have actually been in IM a very long time but have only just at this point started trying to aquire a list. Now, I really hate scamming or dishonest business, but recently hit a very hard financial time stuck deep in debt and having my family to provide for which is my 4 year old daughter Jasmine and partner Annie, I have gone down the dishonest route which has not been pleasant, but it provided me with what I required in the current circumstances.

So yeah, the solo ads would have done that alone but I wanted swaps because I wanted to get started with a list and then possibly start working my way up, the problem is with solo ads that many of my customers have complained that they can’t find good solo ads anywhere, so even though I considered this option for starting my list, this put me off.

Now I am not going to lie to you, as talking any more BS won’t get me any further so I might as well be honest here, I have never had to actually reply to any emails regarding swaps yet but I am sure I will have even more soon. The problem here is it’s indeed true that I have been unfair here, and I don’t know exactly what to say because on solo ads if I am to simply leave with a customers money then they have that to lose and by considering the fact they have nothing to lose by hearing me out and waiting for me to build my list so that I can eventually send out their ads is beneficial to them, and I do indeed intend to send out every one of them ads, for the customers that decided to not take what I said into consideration, they opened the disputes and soon after realized that I won them because it was a virtual good, I even explained this to them before but it’s their own fault for not listening on that.

I work through many different identities and own a VERY large amount of websites, this includes forums, membership sites, squeeze pages, product sales pages and quite a bit more. So the point I am trying to make is, that I could just return under a different identity anyway Paul, and I currently have another 58 swaps this week using many different identities. I have revealed my real name to many of the solo ad buyers and shown them my work.

So what exactly do I want? – Ideally, being beneficial to both of us here, I would like to at least offer to send out your ad when I have established an adequate sized list instead of running off with your subscribers, I don’t see the harm in you taking up this offer? – Also, I feel that contacts are far better to have with internet marketing and although I have been slightly influenced by other scammers and my situation, I really dislike working in this dishonest way.

So here you have the full truth, I can’t really explain much further and of course if you find it unacceptable, well that’s up to you really isn’t it? – However, consider my offer because I ask nothing in return, you have provided your side of the deal and when I can, I would feel better if I could return what you have offered rather than running away. Considering, either way will not really bother me too much, I think you are a good person and you certainly don’t deserve this, I am sorry.

I have many skills that lead to me becoming involved in internet marketing, I also am quite knowledgable on the subject and offer any advice. I understand my wrong-doing here, but theres no need to treat me like I don’t understand exactly what I am doing, this is all well planned and I know exactly what I am doing here, So now in regards to my last statement marked in “bold” font: What exactly do you want? – By all means let me know, as I wish to provide whatever I can on my end and remember Paul that this doesn’t mean you should go thinking you are better than myself for example, sure you carry out business in a more honest way but what I mean is, before you go refusing my offer and complaining, the solution here is to simply be reasonable with me because maybe I have something of benefit to you – I hope so anyway.

Best,
Andy

After Paul replied to the above email (the reply is not included here, as I don’t feel it’s necessary), “Andy” the scammer decided to add to his confession in another email to Paul, which is excerpted below…

Hi Paul,

I do have a list, it’s just not 35,000 subscribers at all, I have done lot’s of work in photoshop, website design and sony vegas, basically for the AWeber screenshot I simply used firebug in Firefox to modify the code and took the screenshot, of course if I wanted to I could have managed with photoshop fine but it just pointlessly takes that little bit longer and of course when I modify code, I don’t usually have to worry about anything being out of place even by 1 pixel, unless I make a mistake but that’s never happend so far. It’s like the ClickBank login videos that you see, some may appear very realistic but it’s a simple job of matching the frames between 2 different clips, I do understand that theres a safe-swaps site if you want to find swaps more safely but I had even questioned that immediately to the fact I could program a bot to enter email addresses into a form and then verfiy that I have a large list, I have never done so because I see it as a waste of time and I would be paying increased AWeber charges for fake/bot generated email addresses…

(Andy)

(UPDATE: Added 03/18/11, 1:35PM)
After posting this to my blog, I received another of Andy’s confessionals, which was received by Internet marketer Socrates Socratous. Socrates was scammed by Andy Tudor, and by Dave Rivera (aka Monta on the Warrior Forum), who may or may not be the same person.

Socrates submitted PayPal disputes, which were ruled in favor of the scammers by PayPal (due to the digital goods loophole). After Andy won the dispute, he sent this email to Socrates:

Well, it appears I have won that dispute… so I have changed my mind. The NO REFUNDZ policy now applies.

I look forward working with you again in the future, I will spend the more wisely, don’t worry!

I am going to enjoy a nice cigar, which might seem a waste of money but it’s just to celebrate your failure, the sweet and smokey taste of success..

It’s only $450 man, it’s not much at all, but I guess with all the others out there that I clearly SCAMMED, it all adds up at the end of each and every day!

You are indeed the idiot that fell into the scamtrap. How’s that for disrespect? – You think your money was enough? No, please… it’s the pure enjoyment of scamming you that makes it worthwhile.

I suggest you get onto your credit card company Socrates, it’s obviously a bad sign if you had to use a CREDIT card to purchase a solo ad, what’s wrong? Out of money? I hope you starve.

Best Regards,
Andy

Subsequently, Socrates did file a complaint with his credit card company, and DID receive his money back through a chargeback.
(End of updated section)

CONCLUSION

I could give a lot of my own commentary here about…

…how the scammer justifies his actions by his circumstances, and his “good conscience”…

…how he arrogantly talks of winning Paypal disputes, and has the guts to blame his victims for not listening to him…

…how he is STILL trying to scam Paul and CONTROL the situation in his emails, and even goes so far as to compare himself to Paul…

…the fact that he “feels bad” about it, yet has another 58 VICTIMS lined up already in the next week under his various scammer aliases…

But I’ll leave the bulk of the commentary to you. Please post your comments below.

And most importantly, beware of scammers like “Andy”. As the scammer himself confessed: Anything on your computer screen could be fake. Just because something looks real, that doesn’t mean it’s real.

At the same time, not everything is fake. There are plenty of legitimate opportunities, and there’s plenty of money to be made online. So take this knowledge and apply it to your personal “filter”, as you determine what’s real and what’s not.

Have a great day!

(UPDATE: Added 03/21/11, 2:40PM)

Just a quick update to let everyone know that Mike Filsaime has contacted his rep at PayPal to notify them about the scammer, and PayPal has confirmed that their risk department is taking care of the scammer’s accounts. Thanks Mike. The guys at AWeber have also been notified, and I was told that their security department is handling it as well.

406 thoughts on “Confessions of an Internet Marketing Scammer”

John March 20, 2011

Oh Dear. This is discouraging. The reference is to a last name the same as a certain gambling location near the west coast of USA? If so, I had a similar problem where there were promised monthly updates to a product. That never ever happened. Tried to ask for help. The “Help” address did not work [it was non-existent. It was subsequently ‘changed’, but still did not work]. The direct gmail address of KR went unanswered. Given the benefit of the doubt I tried to contact and this went on for perhaps 3 months. Finally went to PayPal disputes and detailed the problem. Requested refund for all monthly payments. Got an instant response from KR with a 1 month refund. Lesson learned. Funny, in the early days, if it is the same person, he was quite reliable.

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Kevin Lam March 20, 2011

Da-damn! What more can one say? I had an incident similar to this, but not to that degree. I simply called PayPal, disputed it, they gave me an instant 50% refund just because and then they proceeded to freeze his account.

I then went on to shut down ALL of his websites, his hosting, his forum memberships and all other memberships. I basically wiped him out.

I would hate to be the person that screws with me again. Btw, the guy was in Egypt. That didn’t save him. I tracked down his phone number and home address. Couldn’t get away with nothing.

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daryl March 20, 2011

O.K I confess, I have read all the post’s but I’ve seen enough, and things should/will change.

I also like everyone here, and have been scammed by some bif time Guru’s. We should all get to gether and start to NAME AND SHAME thease people so no body esle gets hurt.

I understand that some of them even change thier names so what do we do !!!. It feels like I don’t trust anybody online at all any more, sorry to the none scammers no malice intented, but things need to change and change fast.

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Victor March 20, 2011

The scammer was not stupid, he was very angry that Socrates used his credit cards that can use to charged back and returned the money.
Just my thought. Victor

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Kitty Jellinek March 20, 2011

Hi Chris,
I can only speak from my own experience regarding PayPal disputes.
Around 8 months ago I ordered an e-book via PayPal – it was advertised as a manual on a particular subject and cost $39.
The book was delivered immediately and consisted of one page full of links to further sales pitches – there was no content in reference to the topic the e-book was advertised to cover.
I tried to contact the vendor and after 6 unsuccessful attempts I attempted to lodge a dispute via my PayPal account. I got an automated message to the affect that they don’t engage in disputes over digital delivered products.
I live in Australia so I phoned the Australian office and explained the situation. My money was refunded within 24 hours. I was also informed that this scam artist had his account closed by PayPal as they had already received a lot of complaints over the same product.
I know that any payment processor that is seen to be aiding and abetting criminal activities is liable to be legally penalized themselves.
Therefore if you know that you have been fraudulently dealt with don’t be afraid to ask for your money back.
No matter what PayPal may say about their refund policy – they are not the law – and they have to play to the same rules as everyone else. This is the reason you can do charge backs with your credit cards after all.

Cheers,
Kitty.

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maswid March 20, 2011

Hi James. I don’t understand why would you love WF for deleting Desmond Ong’s thread that linked Eric’s article? Shouldn’t WF also do a service to its members on the potential loss inflicted by “Andy and his gangs”? Btw, I just upgraded my membership with WF to its War Room status [my apology if I misuderstand you]

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maswid March 20, 2011

Hi Caesar,

Any personal past experience which lead you to this decision?

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Stuart - NetActivated.com March 20, 2011

hey eric,
not ‘kind words’ at all, just a simple
statement of fact.

you know that i’ve spent the last 6 years
ranting & raving about the sad state of affairs
in this industry, and you are on a very short
list of marketers that i can honestly say would
never compromise their integrity for $$$…

as for JV Alert, would have said ‘hi’ myself,
but recently had some minor heart surgery (for a
major problem) that i’m still trying recover
from (i swear – the meds make me feel worse than
the original problems did!) kept me from going.

anyway, PM me your email address (so i don’t
have to wade thru eons of emails to find it)
when you have time, and we’ll touch base.

BTW – i’ve been following your travels &
missions with great interest. keep up the good
work.

regards,
stuart

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George March 20, 2011

Interesting post. This sort of things have been happening in IM, i bet everyone have their own stories like this. I once was a victim of this scam thing with a hosting company-thank God i paid less than $4 for the monthly fee they took without providing me any authentic login to my cpanel. Beware guys!

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maswid March 20, 2011

I thought that Clickbank had some sort of background check before allowing someone to launch a product. What would you say Eric? Will similar case reappearing in the future?

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Stanley March 20, 2011

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the eye opening information on internet marketing scammers. Well done Paul!

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John March 20, 2011

I have never trusted screen shots showing stats. They are too easy to manipulate. Thanks for the article Eric.

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Ken Harthun March 20, 2011

Out of respect to Eric and his desire to keep his site family friendly, I won’t use the words I would otherwise use. However, because I have a good command of English, I am able to say what I think without offending anyone with vulgarity.

Gary Simpson (who is a friend of mine, “Andy” and neither one of us are people you want to mess with) will appreciate this.

Andy, when you finally end up at the crossbar hotel–and you will, believe me–you will find yourself in the position of being the female breeding dog who is catching the payload of a tattooed urban nubian street rat who is a guest because he loves to do bad things to weakling idiots.

Don’t fight it, just enjoy it.

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Eric Post authorMarch 20, 2011

There’s no background check. Their security department reviews the product before approving a new vendor, but once you’re approved, it’s easy to launch new products without going through the approval process again.

It’s a double edged sword. Part of what I love about Clickbank is how easy it is to launch a new product. But the downside of that attribute is a lot of junk ends up in their marketplace.

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Eric Post authorMarch 20, 2011

I think James was being sarcastic. I did not see the thread personally, and I don’t know why it was deleted. But as a general rule, WF likes to keep the discussion in the forum, rather than simply linking elsewhere (like to my blog) to get the content and discussion. I can certainly understand that policy, but in this case it seems like maybe they should have allowed it. After all, I’m not here bashing the WF.

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Eric Post authorMarch 20, 2011

I pray you have a good recovery from the surgery, and I’ll send you an email!

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Eric Post authorMarch 20, 2011

Regarding #1- I don’t think it is a reason to not use PayPal for buying products. If you want the extra layer of protection, then use your Credit Card thru PayPal.

Also, keep in mind that the PayPal problems related to this scam are due to the “virtual goods” distinction. For physical goods, PayPal gives good protection.

I recently bought a gold coin on ebay that turned out to be fake. The seller balked at my claim, but PayPal/Ebay gave my money back under their buyer protection program.

Also PayPal is often more secure than paying with your credit card directly on a merchant’s site. Those merchants may be storing your credit card number on their server, and they might not have adequate security, but PayPal is in the security business.

So I would not avoid paying with PayPal, but rather avoid buying digital products from questionable vendors, and if you do– use your credit card via PayPal.

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Eric Post authorMarch 20, 2011

Nothing wrong with being skeptical… I would be too.

As a matter of fact, I will soon be launching a new product with Paul and another guy named Jeff. And YES… this scam theme fits in perfectly with it.

But it was certainly not planned. This scam just occured days ago, and our product has been in the works for months. Beyond that, there are many other victims of the scammer who have publicly posted on the warrior forum. So that’s proof that we’re not making it up.

Why did the scammer write those emails? I can theorize, but I don’t know. That’s what made this situation exceptional and worthy of a blog post.

Am I an opportunist? Absolutely. I knew that this post would be a good lead-in for our new product.

Did I write the post with the INTENTION of getting you to buy something? No. I have a much longer term strategy than that. My goal for this site (and has been for years) is to provide good, helpful content for free.

I do this because I really want to provide helpful content. The end result is that my readers do trust me and do buy things from me. I call that a win-win business model.

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Robin Lee March 20, 2011

Eric & Paul,
Thank you for shedding light upon this subject and making it the IM worlds topic of conversation. Unscrupulous marketers just make it that much harder for the rest of us.
Appreciate the article.
Robin

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Baz March 20, 2011

Unfortunately I had a similar problem with KR. He collected his money and failed to live up to his promises, no refund, non existant helpdesk, no reply to emails. I heard on one of the forums last week that one of his victims had reported him to the FTC. Hopefully it won’t be long before they come knocking on his door.

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William March 20, 2011

Wow… man that’s some pretty heavy stuff. Who would have thought… It’s just hard to understand what makes folks like that tick????

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judy March 20, 2011

When I first read this, it actually depressed me for a few days. I didn’t realize how deep the sound and the voice or the spirit behind the scam was. Almost like satan himself, no fear, no remorse, and so flaunting. I was sad. Sad for the parts of our society that does this everyday to innocent trusting victims, whether internet marketing, or just everyday life. I was sad for the internet marketing world because for so long I have worked at this…still not successful and for a brief moment wondered what I had gotten into..or believed in for about 2 years. Ok, Im over it. My heart and my prayers go out the victims, but to the evil sad voice behind Andy…and the other scammers who don’t know how deep they are in it.

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Tracey March 20, 2011

Eric,
Thanks for posting this. I haven’t done ad swaps with anyone on the WF, but I have gotten a lot of great information there, as well as purchased some great services and products. It is good for me to know that I have to keep my guard up — even on the Warrior Forum.

Thank you for all the information you provide to your readers.

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Larry March 21, 2011

I was also scammed by Andy Tudor last week and filed a dispute with PayPal which Andy escalated to a claim advising them of their policy on viral products and Paypal promptly closed my dispute. I am very unhappy with paypal. A couple other things I noticed which may tip you off is the payment link which I copy here- payments@gpredatorsystem.com I say that when making my payment and thought that was weird but I’m new to IM-actually this was my first solo attempt. When I saw my statemnt from paypal it says the recipient was as follows
Name: Nancy Cole (The recipient of this payment is Non-U.S. – Verified)
Email: payments@gpredatorsystem.com
So can this be trusted that the recipient is outside the US? Who knows. I’m still trying to get my $197 back.

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Bishop Anders March 21, 2011

While I agree that ad swaps are very risky to get involved with, it also seems that your write up is staged. (no offense intended)

For those who instantly became enraged that I would speak to Eric in such a crass way, relax! I know Eric on a personal level and this isn’t an attack against him – Eric is one of the brightest, most powerful, and above all else most honest marketers I have ever met online or off and I respect him without limit on a professional level, and just plain think he’s one of the good guys on the personal side of things.

The first thing that came to mind as i read your post was probably just like everyone else’s… “%^$%$ scumbag scammers!”…. but then…

The second thing that came to mind was that this post would be a very powerful lead in into some type of informational product.

1- The persons scammed were/are seasoned marketers… and now they are “experts” on being scammed.

2- Write an ebook teaching people how to not get scammed for only $27!

I’m probably getting to cynical for this business… But it just looks like the potential for setting the stage for an upcoming info-product release.

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Paul McDonald March 21, 2011

Eric…Thank you so much for your attention to this, and also showing that you truly are a GOOD friend. I know Paul Counts is a fellow Christian, and as far as I’m concerned is above reproach when it comes to business dealings. I haven’t had the pleasure of meeting him. I have dealt with Socrates, and again, is a good, and very personable man.
It makes me ILL that this goes on, an as many people have said…gives us all a bad name.
Gary…loved your posts! Poetry in motion:)
Thanks again Eric!

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Lynda Tracey March 21, 2011

Wow i cant believe that and sat reading it with a knot in my stomach.It makes me feel glad that i struggle so much that i couldnt afford to pay for anything so havent be ripped off yet.I am now more frightened than ever to continue with this job and it makes me so much less trusting of people.I just hope i can learn enough to avoid this sort of thing happenening to me .Thanks for writing all this down for us all to see and hopefully avoid .

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Mike Newton March 21, 2011

Thanks for the share Eric…

If nothing else, the more that we can help to make others aware, then that is a few less victims that will get burned.

Although they will laugh when they read this too, sooner or later, it will come back to bite the scam artists on the ass and doing what they do, only goes to prove that they never had what it takes to be truly successful in the first place…

Mike

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Eric Post authorMarch 21, 2011

Good observation.

Opportune timing, yes. Staged, no.

I’ve had a product launch in the works with Paul Counts and Jeff Wellman for months, and this was never a part of our plans.

When Paul told me the other day about his experience getting scammed I said, hey let’s get the word out and share this on my blog.

It IS opportune because it does serve the purpose of introducing my readers to Paul, and also sets us up to be the “good guys”.

Like I told Paul– when life gives you lemons, make lemonade.

BTW I have a free lesson teaching how not to get scammed, it’s one of the first lessons in my lesson series. Our product is not related to scams, but the anti-scammer platform is good positioning for our product.

The motive of the article is to help people, not to get into their wallets.

The article achieves it’s main objective, which is educating people about this scam, and we reap a secondary benefit of building trust with my readers.

It’s the same as what I teach. Provide good quality content that truly helps people, and you will build trust. That should be one of the objectives of all marketer/bloggers.

Since you have known me a long time, you will know that I’m always providing good content, and I’m always launching new products. That’s part of my business model, and it fits together nicely.

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Mike FIlsaime March 21, 2011

Hey Eric…

This is what paypal said to me today
(so they are on it)
=====
”
Hi Mike,

I wanted to let you know that both of these accounts are being taken care by our Risk Department… That IS really disturbing…

Let me know if you find any more…

Thanks,
PayPal rep name removed”

=====

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James March 21, 2011

Gary Simpson
TEMPLE..said…

He’s already gotten away with the crime – or so he thinks. He NEEDS that extra ingratiation. It gives him such a buzz. He craves that feeling of power over people.

Wait till he feels the power of a set of handcuffs,, they quickly let a person know who is in charge!

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Eric Post authorMarch 21, 2011

Excellent, thanks for following up Mike! I’ll add this to the post.

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|Edith March 21, 2011

thanks Paul

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Alek March 22, 2011

Eric, thank you for posting the story – to be aware means be protected. I loved your latest update: people should be punished for their devious behavior, especially in such impudent way.

Alek

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Pete Chapman March 22, 2011

Hi Eric, That is quite an eye-opening post, and has really brought home a very important lesson for all of us whether newbies or established and experienced internet marketers.

Scammers like this are guilty of fraud and as such should be tracked down and locked up for a long time…unfortunately that will prove difficult until we have better safeguards in place which will require advertisers on forums like the warrior forum to verify their identity and place of residence before being allowed to advertise.

I am shocked paypal sided with the scammer!, surely the emails the scammer sent would prove the case against him to paypal?.

Thank you again for this informative and very important post…
Pete Chapman

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David March 22, 2011

Hi Eric,
It is good to see that the good guy comes out on top. I like the old rule if it looks to good to be true RUN like H***.
I have been using your tips to help me get started on the internet.

Thanks
David

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Rob Toth March 22, 2011

Precisely.

Just shut him down. Aweber should work to track down his account(s) and close them. His hosting provider (where-ever the squeeze pages that his ad-swaps were promoting are) should shut him down… his PayPal should block him… Warrior Forum can close his current accounts and release a public statement on WF regarding this practice (this isn’t a new scam, but “newbies” aren’t aware of it and even experienced marketers can often have too much trust in users) .

This is unfortunate. Scamming/conning exists in every industry. As do inbred low-life no ethic bastards.

If I were at PayPal loss prevention, I’d also want to contact any banks and credit card companies that his account is linked to and show them these posts. Freeze his accounts.

Not to mention get law enforcement involved. If the FTC is chasing up honest marketers for unclear verbiage on their salespages, they better damn well get to work and shut down people like this and put him in jail.

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Rob Toth March 22, 2011

What does JVNotify Pro, a reputable forum and community with a lot of honest members, have to do with junk products?

And certainly what does the efficient business tactic of upsells (something that’s common in all areas of commerce) have to do with unethical blatant lies)?

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Rob Toth March 22, 2011

Sure but with replies like the above from “Andy” … that’s evidence of this having been a fraudulent sale. It’s admittance to a scam. It should certainly be enough for PP to close that users account and hold his funds.

PayPal is often eager to suspend valid accounts due to red flags. Well a confession of guilt is about as red of a flag as they come.

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Rob Toth March 22, 2011

Guys… cheers to you for getting PP to handle this.

But I do hope PP also contacts the banks and credit cards that this user linked to those accounts and provides evidence (or at least a link to this blog post) of fradualent activity.

His PP, his hosting, his aweber, his bank account, his credit card should all be frozen and this is a crime so he should be found and prosecuted.

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Rob Toth March 22, 2011

Bruce… seriously this was the first reason you’ve come across to keep your BS antennae up on WF? I’m glad to hear it but I’m also very surprised.

WF is littered with nonsense. It’s the nature of the beast though. It’s a large, matured community so the amount of BS on there is very evident.

On another note, I completely agree… this is a crime WITH admission of the crime. So it’s merely a game of cat and mouse to find the offender and arrest him.

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Rob Toth March 22, 2011

Exactly. And then once found, go through his computers, his address book, his most frequently emailed to contacts, most frequent contacts on Skype and look at the activities of some of his closest associates.

This guy sounds like too much of an amateur dummy to have figured out scams on his own. I’m very sure he has “friends” and he hangs out in “blackhat” communities where many other such criminals can be found.

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Davin Ogden March 22, 2011

Wow, very interesting indeed Eric. It’s interesting this same guy was just trying to “dupe” me over the course of the last week and a half or so.

I’m a JV Relations Co-ordinator, and we’ve exchanged emails on a few occasions, if you recall. Just recently actually..

Anyways, thankfully I trusted my gut instinct on this guy and didn’t line anything up with him. Some of what he was saying just wasn’t adding up to me..although he was quick to show me screenshots and all the rest of it.

Thanx for revealing this scumbag for what he is..glad I trusted my gut on it:-)

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Tim Gorman March 22, 2011

I was also almost scammed by Andy as I had inquired about his offer to send a solo ad to his list.

Fortunately my spider sense started tingling and something did not feel right in my Warrior Forum PM exchanges with him. Also the fact that he had a low post count and that I had never heard of him yet he had a “Huge list of 35K” sent up red flags.

My assumptions were proven correct when I received a warning from another Warrior Forum member which I am very thankful in receiving.

I hate scumbags like this and having purchased products from Paul in ther past I know what a stand-up guy he is and feel bad for him.

Unfortunately losers like Andy are like a Hydra….every time you chop its head off two more grow back in its place.

Respectfully,
Tim

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rob March 22, 2011

I must be really naive because I can’t even believe someone would do that. Is he for real? I was just about to consider doing some ad swaps with my 2 small lists – about 400 in total. I will be proceeding carefully now.

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Mark Andrews IMCopywriting March 22, 2011

The Warrior Forum from my personal experience doesn’t care at all about protecting ordinary, honest folks in business.

They take a very lax attitude towards scammers either turning a blind eye to the problem altogether or condemning anyone for exposing a scammer.

A few people including myself have been banned from that forum for exposing scammers in the past. Their #1 rule essentially protects scammers from being exposed.

A totally irresponsible approach if you ask me but there you go. There’s no point to be gained sending in a complaint at the Warrior Forum, it’ll just fall on deaf ears because they won’t recognize that the problem exists in the first place.

The entire Warrior Forum is filled with get rich quick scams of one kind or another which in the real business world have little or no chance of success, unless you too want to sell people on false dreams and false promises.

Just look at the sheer number of WSO offers promising to make huge sums of money at the click or two of the mouse, it’s simply an absurd marketplace.

Fair enough there are lots of honest people there too but overall that forum is nothing but a cesspit of get rich quick schemes.

Money comes through hard work and real marketing and building solid relationships not clicking a mouse once or twice here and there.

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Mark Andrews IMCopywriting March 22, 2011

Codswallop and piffle! They don’t give a flying hoot about the scammers on their forum. It’s an absolute joke, an embarrassment to the rest of the honest IM community that particular forum.

I’ve exposed scammers before on the WF and was told to either shut up or risk being banned myself. In the end holding to my principles… I was finally banned for good. Others have experienced the same treatment.

So scammers can continue on that forum whilst good, honest business folks who hate scammers with a passion and expose them are the ones who get punished? It’s an utterly and absolutely ridiculous situation.

Complain to the head honcho’s on the Warrior Forum? Aka Paul Myers & Co? Good luck with that course of action. They’re far more interested in the protection of scammers rights than they are in protecting the rights of hard working, honest individuals who are simply trying to do their best to earn an honest crust and put food on the table.

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Alessandro Zamboni March 22, 2011

This is one thing I always do : never buy things from mistery people.
If you don’t know him personally, don’t buy anything from him, especially this high price tag services.

There is some people able to do a free list exchange with you, me included.

Thanks and see you soon,
Alessandro

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Pat March 22, 2011

I find it annoying to be sent ‘offers’ from others by someone I subscribed to WHEN THEY HAVE NOT VETTED THEM.
WHen inundated with every offer — good or bad — that crosses a marketers threshold, I unsubscribe. Really destroys my opinion of your integrity.
By my choice, I no longer receive email or newsletters from a number of “star IM gurus”, whose primary purpose seems to be to win contests and rack up affiliate fees.

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Dave Lianelli March 22, 2011

Eric,

there’s another name I suspect to be a part of this whole scamming story. I received the following emails from a guy named PabloVTB.

——————————-

Hi d,
You’ve probably heard about these big launches lately that are promoting get rich quick schemes and software. I’m talking about Clickbank products such as: Commission Crusher, Free Money Formula, or Get FB Ads Free.

It’s easy to fall into these traps, and I’m begging you NOT to buy these crappy products, and here’s WHY:

Let’s dissect what these products REALLY are about, shall we?

1. Commission Crusher promises you a PUSH BUTTON SOFTWARE that brings loads and loads of traffic overnight without any effort from your part, without any website, ppc, google, media buys, ppv, you name it.

What is it really about?

Commission Crusher is actually not a software, but a WEBSITE.

Yeah, you’ve read that one right. This misleading product is a simple Quantcast or DoubleClick scraper that tells you what websites accept ads based on 1 word keyword phrases, so you can SPEND YOUR MONEY and BUY MEDIA PLACEMENTS to insert affiliate links.

Heh? Didn’t you say no media buys were involved? WRONG

Save your money and access the web site right here:

Basic Version
(link removed)
Pro Version
(link removed)

2. Free Money Formula
Similar landing page, similar “limited to 500”, “underground secret software” offer.

What is this one REALLY about?

Phillip Mansour tells you to buy a domain name, and redirect it to some offer of your choice. The software is actually an ARTICLE SPINNER and ARTICLE SUBMITTER, so you will be spamming your articles all over the net to produce some traffic.
Is this a big secret software noone knew about? Please.

Look at some extracts of one of the emails he is sending to his JV partners:
“Hey,
I’d like to Thank You once again for all the support on this launch! 1st person to hit 100 sales from Friday to Sunday ….. Grabs $3,000 pure cash which is extra $30 a sale. 1st person to hit 50 sales from Friday to Sunday … Grabs $1,000 pure cash which is extra $20 a sale. 1st person who can hit 200 sales this weekend is going to get an extra $4,000 CASH MONEY on top of all the other prizes.
Yes.. The same person can win all 8k cash!
LET’S PUSH HARD THIS WEEKEND.
You take care of me, I will take care of you x10.”
…….

That’s all I have to say about his “500 max. claim”

Save your money:
(link removed)

3. Get FB Ads Free
This guy pretends to have found a loophole in Facebook in order display Facebook Ads for Free, he even shows you some numbers and “Budgets”.

What is this REALLY about?

Get FB Ads Free seems to be a software to create “professional looking” fan pages. YEAH! That’s for the loophole I guess. I don’t know about you, but I don’t need a software to create a professional looking fan pages, and scripts like LikeSpinner are more than enough.

Again, all these softwares offer upsells, crosssells, and downsells, so it’s not really about the front end product, but you have to buy what’s next!

d, I don’t know about you but I show no respect for people that mess up with me, and I don’t care sharing their “big secrets” with you.

Just do me a favour and don’t fall for these traps no more.

Go and invest in something that actually works,
and get back to work.

Talk soon,
Pablo
———————–

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